[IOMike]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Perhaps you didn't see the Motortrend Head 2 Head where the gen5 Zeta 1LE handled the S550 GT PP. Chevy say the new SS nears the outgoing 1LE. Imagine the new 1LE!

I don't understand the "sedan" dig by the Ford guys. Chevy dominated with the Zeta platform in gen5 and sharing DNA with the CTS-V and ATS-V for gen6 is a good thing IMO.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUQZwmTKMqw

Camaro didn't even have Zeta II like the SS sedan. Ford better have some tricks up their sleeve.

[SpeedIsLife]

For roughly 35 of it's 50 years of production the Mustang's bones were that of a sedan (The Falcon and Fairmont). The only years it wasnt based on a sedan were the Mustang II and S197 era, and the current S550.

So that argument isn't fair since both the Camaro and Mustang have always had sedan bones at some point in their lives, the Camaro being related to the Nova etc.

The evolution of the Zeta platform is a good example of what Chevy can do when they're given no other choice. Ford pulled off a similar feat when they held onto the SRA until the 2015 MY, especially with the design of the Boss 302 which kicked the crap out of a lot of cars both on and off track. We really should thank Ford for that because if it wasn't for the Boss returning we wouldn't have gotten the 1LE or the Z/28.

That being said I'm very curious how much of the advantage the 1LE had over the GTPP was due to having a much better tie, and more of it.

[blacks550gt]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Perhaps you didn't see the Motortrend Head 2 Head where the gen5 Zeta 1LE handled the S550 GT PP. Chevy say the new SS nears the outgoing 1LE. Imagine the new 1LE!

I don't understand the "sedan" dig by the Ford guys. Chevy dominated with the Zeta platform in gen5 and sharing DNA with the CTS-V and ATS-V for gen6 is a good thing IMO.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUQZwmTKMqw

also if you recall, Randy mentioned that the gt had very good bones. And he kept mentioning how much he loved the chassis. I wouldn't judge the chassis on the gt alone. Let's wait for the gt350.

regardless of anything, I feel both Chevy and Ford owners should be happy of having two great cars to choose from.

[ULTRAZLS1]

It's also fair to say it looks as if ford is chasing gm right now in handling. They are still trying to conquer the 5th gen let alone alpha.

And yes. The mustang has a performance built chassis made just for it. But right now it's having trouble with a retro fitted 3900 pound zeta from GM. Does that sound a little lopsided to anyone else? Whatever way you look at it GM engineering is no joke.

BTW... I thought gm stated the upcoming ss was already surpassing the 1le. Not getting close to it. A 200 lb lighter MRC equipped 2016 ss should have no problem being quicker than a 1le.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Perhaps you didn't see the Motortrend Head 2 Head where the gen5 Zeta 1LE handled the S550 GT PP. Chevy say the new SS nears the outgoing 1LE. Imagine the new 1LE!

I don't understand the "sedan" dig by the Ford guys. Chevy dominated with the Zeta platform in gen5 and sharing DNA with the CTS-V and ATS-V for gen6 is a good thing IMO.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jUQZwmTKMqw

Best you imagine a 6th Gen 1LE package,because I would actually be suprised if you ever see that option offered on the SS in the near future. That is unless GM ends up packaging the MRC option on the SS and labels it 1LE.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by blacks550gt

also if you recall, Randy mentioned that the gt had very good bones. And he kept mentioning how much he loved the chassis. I wouldn't judge the chassis on the gt alone. Let's wait for the gt350.

regardless of anything, I feel both Chevy and Ford owners should be happy of having two great cars to choose from.

Ford and the Mustang have my respect. I am however miffed by the sedan, Alpha reinforced for V8, small brakes and three radiator digs.

When Alpha was conceived at GM the V8 power CTS-V and Camaro variants were part of the plan. A V8 wasn't an afterthought and the cooling and brakes are part of a clean sheet design. GM's success with the CTS-V, 1LE, Z/28 and ZL1 make speculation that the cars are under designed foolish IMO.

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

Best you imagine a 6th Gen 1LE package,because I would actually be suprised if you ever see that option offered on the SS in the near future. That is unless GM ends up packaging the MRC option on the SS and labels it 1LE.

I believe Camaro will follow Corvette. Available mag ride on the SS will be in the form of the 1LE package similar to adding the Z51 option to the Stingray. The C7 Z51 is nearly as fast as the C6 Z06. The gen6 1LE will be a force.

[Camaro_Corvette]

Available at launch? Nope.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Ford and the Mustang have my respect. I am however miffed by the sedan, Alpha reinforced for V8, small brakes and three radiator digs.

When Alpha was conceived at GM the V8 power CTS-V and Camaro variants were part of the plan. A V8 wasn't an afterthought and the cooling and brakes are part of a clean sheet design. GM's success with the CTS-V, 1LE, Z/28 and ZL1 make speculation that the cars are under designed foolish IMO.


I believe Camaro will follow Corvette. Available mag ride on the SS will be in the form of the 1LE package similar to adding the Z51 option to the Stingray. The C7 Z51 is nearly as fast as the C6 Z06. The gen6 1LE will be a force.

Doesn't mean the Alpha is a better chassis than the S500. That was the comment made.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

Doesn't mean the Alpha is a better chassis than the S500. That was the comment made.

You said Aplha is a sedan adapted to handle a V8 and that the S550 is specific to the Mustang and its array of power plants. I reminded you that V8 (including the LT4) were part of the original goal for the platform. Not adapted. Put another way... S550 was designed to accommodate 4, 6 and 8 cylinder. So was Alpha. How is one a compromise and the other not? Aplha is a high end Caddy platform.. No?

Time will tell how the two cars do. Round one between the Zeta 1LE vs the S550 GT PP went to GM. It's reasonable to expect Aplha will be better and Chevy will have an answer for the GT350. It's the upcoming GT500 that should keep GM engineers awake at night.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

You said Aplha is a sedan adapted to handle a V8 and that the S550 is specific to the Mustang and its array of power plants. I reminded you that V8 (including the LT4) were part of the original goal for the platform. Not adapted. Put another way... S550 was designed to accommodate 4, 6 and 8 cylinder. So was Alpha. How is one a compromise and the other not? Aplha is a high end Caddy platform.. No?

Time will tell how the two cars do. Round one between the Zeta 1LE vs the S550 GT PP went to GM. It's reasonable to expect Aplha will be better and Chevy will have an answer for the GT350. It's the upcoming GT500 that should keep GM engineers awake at night.

It was not the chassis that gave the edge to the Gen5 1LE-equipped SS (specifically engineered for track day duty) over the 2015 GT with the performance pack option (engineered for superior street performance). Should it be a surprise that a car intended for track duty won out in a handling test over a car that was engineered for street performance?

If GM offers a 1LE option for the 6th Gen, then it's direct competition will be the 2016 GT350, not the GT with PP.

Again, to suggest that the Alpha platform is better than the S550 platform just because it is made by GM is ludicrous if you're approaching things from a purely objective viewpoint.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

It was not the chassis that gave the edge to the Gen5 1LE-equipped SS (specifically engineered for track day duty) over the 2015 GT with the performance pack option (engineered for superior street performance). Should it be a surprise that a car intended for track duty won out in a handling test over a car that was engineered for street performance?

If GM offers a 1LE option for the 6th Gen, then it's direct competition will be the 2016 GT350, not the GT with PP.

Again, to suggest that the Alpha platform is better than the S550 platform just because it is made by GM is ludicrous if you're approaching things from a purely objective viewpoint.

If the PP is the "street performance" option, what is the GT? Are you saying the PP is a poser whereas the 1LE is the real track focused car?

The GT350 is Ford's answer the the gen5 Z/28 and while I do believe the next 1LE will close the gap, I don't think it will be aimed at beating the GT350.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

It was not the chassis that gave the edge to the Gen5 1LE-equipped SS (specifically engineered for track day duty) over the 2015 GT with the performance pack option (engineered for superior street performance). Should it be a surprise that a car intended for track duty won out in a handling test over a car that was engineered for street performance?

If GM offers a 1LE option for the 6th Gen, then it's direct competition will be the 2016 GT350, not the GT with PP.

Again, to suggest that the Alpha platform is better than the S550 platform just because it is made by GM is ludicrous if you're approaching things from a purely objective viewpoint.

According to Mustang Cheif engineer David Pericak the PP would best the Boss

We already set a very high standard for Mustang driving dynamics with the 2012 Mustang Boss 302, and our goal was to go above and beyond that with the performance pack on this new car, said Pericak
https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...nce-suspension

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

If the PP is the "street performance" option, what is the GT? Are you saying the PP is a poser whereas the 1LE is the real track focused car?

The GT350 is Ford's answer the the gen5 Z/28 and while I do believe the next 1LE will close the gap, I don't think it will be aimed at beating the GT350.

No, not a poser, as Ford never designed or marketed the GT w/PP as a track-focused vehicle. It is simply an option that enhances the overall performance of the GT versus a non-PP version.

The GT350R is the top-of-the-line track performer in the S550 Mustang lineup, just like the z/28 was for the Csmsro's 5thGen. The base GT350 will slot one step down from the GT350R and will go head-to-head with the MRC optioned SS, as there is unlikely to be any 1LE option for the 6thGen.

Yes, Ford benchmarked the Boss 302 for the GT PP, but that does not mean the GT PP is a track-focused trim like the Boss was. Different cars and different platforms.

Again, the comment being addressed is why do some people think the Alpha PLATFORM is inherently better than the S550? The only suggestion so far is because GM builds the Alpha and Ford builds the S550.

[IOMike]

Because cars built off the Alpha chassis have beaten what was once considered to be the benchmark in handling and being a drivers car and now it's Cadillac that's considered the top of the class for handling and driving characteristics. So far the S550 has been bested by the last generation 1le.