[oldman]

It was 2017 and 17,000 to 20,000 miles ago that I went with the TSP dual valve spring and a Pray spec blower cam from TSP about .635" lift. I then went with a mild ramp Cam Motion .59X" lift cam but did not change the springs. I can report the cam after all these years looks new with so that should mean that valve motion is under control (fuel cut at 7350 RPM) shift just above 7000 so say 7200. For peace of mind it is time to change the springs.

TSP only sells a complete dual spring kit, springs, retainers, seals/ seats, for $330
BTR has a conical kit for mild applications, but I've tossed the OEM retainers and titanium ones are $129 (not that it needed as beehive / conical retainers are very small in diameter). $229
last BTR spring only is
https://www.michiganmotorsports.com/...4-lq9-l33-lsa/ for $155

The TSP have lasted, they are not crazy on pressure so I'm really OK with that, hate to toss perfectly good titanium retainers.

BTR conical, fine somebody is making one without crazy spring pressure for normal street ramp / profile cams. Always wanted to try conicals, note that if and when the conical goes the engine will probably eat a valve, there is some safety in a dual spring application.

BTR spring only, way cheaper, slightly different install height (could shim but lazy) I estimate it would be 130# is at TSP retainer install height of 1.81" which is just a tad light, but this is a street engine and I'll never go too many miles before changing them.

If I had the stock retainer I'd probably just go with the PSI 1515 beehive or something close.
https://www.psisprings.com/products/1500-series/
Don't know but leaning toward the BTR spring... thoughts?

[cmitchell17]

I haven't broken any of my PAC .660 dual springs yet. I put in my TSP cam at around 85k and they sent me 2 sets of PAC .660 dual springs. I lost my valve seats around 15k miles later so I switched to a cam motion and changed the springs to the other .660 PAC set they gave me with my first cam. I did notice though a very small (1/8 in or so) piece did break off from one of the PAC .660 dual springs at the very bottom where it is ground flat but I didn't think much of it and just changed to the other set of PAC springs I had.

So I haven't broken any of the 2 sets but I haven't tried any other brands of springs on this motor though. I want to tear my motor back down again and go to a LS7 style lifter, even though I know everyone bashes them, I am just tired of the sewing machine sound with the Johnson lifters I have and I am assuming that's what's making the noise.

That being said, I have been sending my used oil off just because its cheap to test and I find it interesting to look at, but the results don't look good at all. My last oil change, although I did stretch it a little longer than some of the others does not look that great. I don't have any data though from other UOA's of modified engines, only stock engines to compare to, but even with a modified engine and valvetrain and even with an unstable valvetrain I'm not sure I should expect 10 times the amount of wear metals so it is worrying. I also wouldn't expect you would be able to pick up wear metal indicators from the springs, but I definitely think the main contributor to wear metals showing up would be the aggressive cam profile and maybe valve seat material. It definitely doesn't look like my valvetrain is under control, even after switching from the TSP cam to the cam motion, which I believe was at the 96,800 mile oil change.



I also have been running the rotofab dry which worries me as well, my truck also has a cheap aftermarket dry filter with my turbo setup and I see the exact same results. When I put these aftermarket non-OEM/non-paper filters on the silicone goes up.

[Judy1le]

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

I haven't broken any of my PAC .660 dual springs yet. I put in my TSP cam at around 85k and they sent me 2 sets of PAC .660 dual springs. I lost my valve seats around 15k miles later so I switched to a cam motion and changed the springs to the other .660 PAC set they gave me with my first cam. I did notice though a very small (1/8 in or so) piece did break off from one of the PAC .660 dual springs at the very bottom where it is ground flat but I didn't think much of it and just changed to the other set of PAC springs I had.

So I haven't broken any of the 2 sets but I haven't tried any other brands of springs on this motor though. I want to tear my motor back down again and go to a LS7 style lifter, even though I know everyone bashes them, I am just tired of the sewing machine sound with the Johnson lifters I have and I am assuming that's what's making the noise.

That being said, I have been sending my used oil off just because its cheap to test and I find it interesting to look at, but the results don't look good at all. My last oil change, although I did stretch it a little longer than some of the others does not look that great. I don't have any data though from other UOA's of modified engines, only stock engines to compare to, but even with a modified engine and valvetrain and even with an unstable valvetrain I'm not sure I should expect 10 times the amount of wear metals so it is worrying. I also wouldn't expect you would be able to pick up wear metal indicators from the springs, but I definitely think the main contributor to wear metals showing up would be the aggressive cam profile and maybe valve seat material. It definitely doesn't look like my valvetrain is under control, even after switching from the TSP cam to the cam motion, which I believe was at the 96,800 mile oil change.

Attachment 1144513

I also have been running the rotofab dry which worries me as well, my truck also has a cheap aftermarket dry filter with my turbo setup and I see the exact same results. When I put these aftermarket non-OEM/non-paper filters on the silicone goes up.

What does the silicon have to do with the intake filters? Whats the correlation there?

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Judy1le

What does the silicon have to do with the intake filters? Whats the correlation there?

Elemental silicon could come from silica which is basically sand/dirt, and aftermarket/cheap air filters don't filter sand/dirt like OEM pleated paper filters do. Silicon can also come from sealer and some other stuff, but if you consistently have it along with certain other top end wear metals it's a sign your filter isn't working.

[Judy1le]

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

Elemental silicon could come from silica which is basically sand/dirt, and aftermarket/cheap air filters don't filter sand/dirt like OEM pleated paper filters do. Silicon can also come from sealer and some other stuff, but if you consistently have it along with certain other top end wear metals it's a sign your filter isn't working.

Gotcha. Ive got the rotofab dry which can get dirty as all hell. Ive wondered wether the oiled rotofab filter is any “better” or not.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Judy1le

Gotcha. Ive got the rotofab dry which can get dirty as all hell. Ive wondered wether the oiled rotofab filter is any “better” or not.

I've been meaning to put the stock airbox and filter back on and then test the oil again after a few thousand miles just to try to see if it significantly dropped the silicon. But I don't think there is much difference between the dry and oil as far as filtration efficiency, especially compared to the stock filter.

The silicon being so high is worrisome I think, but with modern engines there is virtually zero wear, so you're going from virtually zero to 5 or 10 times that so I still don't think it adds up to much, I think most people would except some kind of trade off when modifying their engines, although you have to be pretty highly modified and flowing a lot of air to make the investment and a noticeable difference running a aftermarket air intake over the stock one.

[Judy1le]

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

I've been meaning to put the stock airbox and filter back on and then test the oil again after a few thousand miles just to try to see if it significantly dropped the silicon. But I don't think there is much difference between the dry and oil as far as filtration efficiency, especially compared to the stock filter.

The silicon being so high is worrisome I think, but with modern engines there is virtually zero wear, so you're going from virtually zero to 5 or 10 times that so I still don't think it adds up to much, I think most people would except some kind of trade off when modifying their engines, although you have to be pretty highly modified and flowing a lot of air to make the investment and a noticeable difference running a aftermarket air intake over the stock one.

Understood. Im running the rotofab dry with my Katech 427. When reading, it looks like the dry filter has a smaller micron size compared to the oiled rotofab, but it does look like the OEM style filter has a thicker filter material and of course there is all of the pleating.

Id imagine we are making a mountain out of a mole hill though. Nobody likes to see the higher silicon content, but I figured itd would be many many many miles before you see any adverse effects and it looks like you and I both are the type to keep up with maintenance like clockwork.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Judy1le

Understood. Im running the rotofab dry with my Katech 427. When reading, it looks like the dry filter has a smaller micron size compared to the oiled rotofab, but it does look like the OEM style filter has a thicker filter material and of course there is all of the pleating.

Id imagine we are making a mountain out of a mole hill though. Nobody likes to see the higher silicon content, but I figured itd would be many many many miles before you see any adverse effects and it looks like you and I both are the type to keep up with maintenance like clockwork.

Yeah, I think so too, but actually just today I noticed the dreaded cam lobe/bad lifter squeak/chirp noise. I probed around it with a stethoscope and its definitely not a squeaking belt or anything else and is definitely coming from inside the valve cover and/or engine block. So maybe, hopefully, I just broke a valve spring, but I think it could be camshaft/lifter related since I can still hear the noise more near the valley cover.

So it's time to pull the engine and tear it down. Although I have really been wanting to sell the car I just don't think anyone would be interested in buying it, and definitely not with the noise. So I can't decide if I want to try a different cam and go back to LS7 style lifters in hopes that I can get an engine that doesn't sound like a sewing machine, or maybe I should just go back to stock cam without AFM so I could sell it.