[KingLT1]

So DCT can bog off the line?

[waterman]

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

Huh?

I didn't understand your comment so I was hoping you could explain it a bit more. I took it more like you're saying the magazines are not giving us all a detailed picture which means we have to put it together and figure out how these cars perform on our own. If that is what you're saying then I agree. It's like they just dumped a huge jigsaw puzzle on us and are telling us to figure it out. WHich sucks. Because then, WTF is their job and why are they getting paid all this money to test these cars for?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Dissecting this source you can see why the ZL1 1LE was the better car. Not for subjective reasons either.

Below I bullet point the positive comments made about each car.

ZL1 1LE

• GT500's as-tested price of $94,665 is nearly $19,000 more than the Camaro
  
• Manual-transmission fans have an easy choice as the Chevy offers a standard six-speed manual.
  
• 200 pounds less mass
  
• with a weight distribution closer to 50/50
  
• beats the GT500 to 60 mph by .2 second, 3.4 seconds versus 3.6
  
• the Camaro averaged a fuel economy of just 14 mpg, a single mile per gallon ahead of the Mustang
  
• Its range, however, is far superior to the Shelby's. The Mustang's fuel tank is only 16 gallons,
  
• Camaro also outgripped and outstopped the Mustang, with a 1.17-g skidpad performance
  
• and stops from 70 mph in 137 feet
  
• and from 100 mph in 268 feet.
  
• The ZL1 is more stable, and it puts its power down better
  
• a more sophisticated traction-control system,
  
• and an excellent electronic limited-slip differential
  
• Camaro is easier to drive quickly. The fun is more accessible and therefore more easily enjoyed.
  
• the Mustang's steering is numb compared to the Camaro's, and its chassis isn't as sorted.
  
• Camaro's Recaro seats are even more comfortable
  
• ZL1 was also packed with features not found on our Mustang, including navigation, heated and cooled seats, a heated steering wheel, a back seat, power seats, and wireless phone charging.
  
• the winner is the Camaro. Its biggest advantage is that it's simply a better value.
  
• but the more affordable ZL1 1LE manages to match or surpass the Shelby's performance while offering a much longer list of features.

GT500 CFTP

• 5.2-liter supercharged double-overhead-cam 32-valve V-8 not only revs to 7500 rpm, it produces 760 horsepower at 7300 rpm
  
• The Shelby's engine is significantly louder than the Camaro's,
  
• outruns the Camaro to 100 mph by .3 second,
  
• and by 150 mph the gap is stretched to more than 4.0 seconds.
  
• Mustang's 11.4-second run at 132 mph just besting the Camaro's time of 11.5 seconds at 124 mph
  
• On the street, we prefer the Shelby's brake feel and firm pedal action,
  
• and the response and precision of its dual-clutch transmission nearly rivals Porsche's PDK.
  
• The Mustang's suspension is al dente, while the Camaro's is uncooked.
  
• digital gauge cluster also clashes with the cars born-from-the-1960s sensibility, the graphics are appealing and informative
  
• Mustang's interior looks, feels, and functions better than the Camaro's
  
• attention to detail and thoughtful design are also found under the Shelby's hood. With a magnesium strut tower brace, carbon-fiber composite panels, and a menacing cobra emblem atop its supercharger, its engine compartment

I think his comment was more aimed at the journalist sources for doing their best to not give us detailed information.

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

I think some of the postponement was Ford was waiting the HP output of the ZR1 755hp monster. Plus, Ford spent so much time on the Mach-E instead of the GT500.

That is what their problem is. Waiting to see what others are doing instead of building the car properly. GM didn't need to know anything about the GT500 or whatever Ford was up to. And it turns out that they built the 6th Gen Camaros soo well that Ford still can't catch up even when benchmarking them. Ford has to wait to see what everyone else does, then try to match them, and still falls short.

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Imo The ZL1 will be more traction limited then a GT500 on unprepped surfaces. It has a small PD supercharger on a bigger engine. The LT4 peak torque is in the 3k rpm range. The GT500 should have less traction issues if anything. Much bigger supercharger on a smaller engine that makes peak torque around 4500rpm. LT4 makes quite a bit more torque in the 2-4k rpm range. The 2650 is a bit softer then the little 1.7 on the hit.

All testing has shown the exact opposite tho. The 500 has been losing 0.7 to 0.9 sec going from prepped tracks and perfect conditions to unprepped tracks and less ideal conditions. The ZL1 has maybe fluctuated by about 2-3 tenths.

[KingLT1]

Ahh I see...must be the Camaro's suspension and chassis simply does a better job of planting the power. From what I have seen the GT500 power band is very linear even with a PD supercharger, So I assumed it should be able to launch better on unprepped surfaces. I should have known better...lol

[URBAN LEGEND]

This will kill the car.

[zl1_fan]

Originally Posted by FH212

All these years in the making and still could not flat out beat the ZL1. Well done Chevy.....well done.

So true, Chevy really hit a home run on this one!

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Boo

My bad the Z was 11.5...although we all know it can be faster....while the GT500 was 11.4. My point is that Road and Tracks three way was bullshit...

Wasn't that an Edmunds test? R&T just covered it on their page as well.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

FYI: The GT 500 can handle. The car is for real. Progress is good. Makes GM Fire back.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...he-911-gt3-rs/

This has been posted. Keep in mind that gt3rs didn't have the psc2r's it usually wears when setting great lap times, it had non r psc2's.

The gt500 did a great job keeping up, but let's keep things in perspective. A gt350r ran that course Just 2.1 seconds slower than the gt500s time and an SS 1le on 285s square ran it just 2 seconds slower. Food for thought for all those that are losing their head over it keeping up with the gt3rs.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Checkmate1

Just in case anyone was wondering where this information came from, please watch this video -



Among the much information from this video, I learned Car and Driver's tests are the most accurate in the business.

Good post, was wondering where the neck people were getting these slower lap times data.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Boo

Look at the difference between the Road and Track test and the Car and Driver tests...ZL1 won to the quarter....all im saying is that you cant get an accurate test of our cars on the stock GoodYears in 38degree weather.

None of the tires are their best in 38 degrees, it's not like they ran the Redeye and GT500 in 50 degrees and the ZLE in 38 degrees.

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Trap speed tells the truth about which car is faster, and no wonder the GT500 is it with +110hp.

That said, faster isn't always the winner, and had they used a standard ZL1, chances are it would've been at least .2 faster, matching or beating the Mustang. Still, more than respectable performance from a 4-year old, unchanged design against the competitor's brand new response.

Another person not accounting for the traction advantage the G3Rs have on the launch over standard G3s.

Originally Posted by 13vertss

One tell tale of the gt500 is the time lost each lap. They did 3 hot laps and the fastest was the 1st lap. Lost .8 on sec lap, then another.2 on 3rd lap. So it lost a full sec after 1st lap. The gt3 only lost .1 total after 3 laps. So the weight of the car will hold it back once laps get added. So for one lap, it can put up a fast lap, it just can’t sustain it.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

This is where development comes in. A well developed car won't have these types of issues. Not to this extent. Also this is why I say the GT500 is simply a car that can do well on certain tracks as opposed to being a track car. It is basically a GT with a PP2-ish suspension, and a blower thrown on top...with some additional cooling. Pushing a car that heavy around a track for extended periods is going to eventually cause a loss of performance.

Also, this is where statements I made about conditions affecting the GT500 come in. Despite the Mustang guy's most severe protests, the 500 loses a full second after 3 laps while the GT3 loses 1 tenth of a second. This is a significant difference. And it shows just how much more so the 500 (and Mustangs in general) are affected by conditions.

And this is why I asked if Ford really put 6 years of development into this car or if it was just gone for 6 years and they spent maybe just a small portion of that time developing it.

I already have responded to Blaq about this small laptime increase in the other thread, but reading in this thread more about it I really don't think you 2 understand how minuscule of drop off that is. That could easily just be driver as well. You screw up 1 corner and you can lose a second.

Also just to say it again over here, THE TIRES FALL OFF PACE AFTER 2 LAPS.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

I already have responded to Blaq about this small laptime increase in the other thread, but reading in this thread more about it I really don't think you 2 understand how minuscule of drop off that is. That could easily just be driver as well. You screw up 1 corner and you can lose a second.

Also just to say it again over here, THE TIRES FALL OFF PACE AFTER 2 LAPS.

I was going to mention but forget about it, but people do realize humans are still driving these cars right?

The car most likely didn't lose any time because it's not capable of that because it doesn't drive itself.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

None of the tires are their best in 38 degrees, it's not like they ran the Redeye and GT500 in 50 degrees and the ZLE in 38 degrees.


Another person not accounting for the traction advantage the G3Rs have on the launch over standard G3s.



I already have responded to Blaq about this small laptime increase in the other thread, but reading in this thread more about it I really don't think you 2 understand how minuscule of drop off that is. That could easily just be driver as well. You screw up 1 corner and you can lose a second.

Also just to say it again over here, THE TIRES FALL OFF PACE AFTER 2 LAPS.

The GT3 didn't fall off after 3 laps with same tires as the gt500. But human error can make a difference, but what if there wasn't any? so tires will also wear after a couple laps, but don't you think a heavier car will go through tires faster, especially being nose heavy. I just find it funny that when anything goes against the Ford, there's always a excuse, but when we say the Camaro is down 110 hp, or the c8 is down 265hp, you have to deal with it.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

Your options are actually fairly limited on either the ZL1 or the ZLE. This is due to the high standard content.

The ZL1 comes standard with blind spot monitoring, front camera with front collision alert, cross-lane traffic warning, backup camera and back-up sensors for the safety section. Interior comes with Recaro seats, 9 speaker Bose sound system (that is the upgraded system, standard), Apple Car Play, Android Auto and just too much to list.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-cont...ne-15-2018.pdf

Just look at the last column and all of the S for the standard equipment. I think you have to pretty much option out the GT 500 to get to the standard equipment.

The options are sun roof (N/A on ZLE), exposed carbon fiber hood, carbon fiber dash insert, 10 speed auto and PDR. I may have missed something, but I am at a loss to figure out what.

Mine listed for $69,980 including destination and gas guzzler tax. The only option that my ZL1 (non-1LE) was missing was the carbon fiber dash insert. Please do option out a GT500 to that level and let me know what you come up with?

Wasn't disagreeing with the fact the GT500 needed to be optioned. It needs the tech pack to get all the safety stuff the ZL1 has. Was just pointing out it wasn't as 16 to 18 like one poster mentioned but 13ish

and that one could argue that the B&O premium audio is better than the Bose system but that's for teh audiophiles to discuss lol