Mystery Camaro - LS3 Automatic

[95tealZ]

Hi guys, new to the group. So I'm in the market for a nice low mile 5th gen. Was after the 6th gen but the nonexistent rear seats and a few other issues with those turned me off. A 2011 2SS with the RS package turned up at a dealership nearby that ticks most of my boxes with 2 exceptions...First its a convertible and while I wasn't specifically looking for one and wouldn't pay extra for it, it's a red car with what looks like a brand new top and it looks sharp. Second, I really wanted a manual/ls3. This car, and it's been driving me nuts, is an automatic with (allegedly) an ls3 and I was about 100% sure they couldn't be ordered that way and that it was strictly ls3/manual l99/auto. I'm assuming its an ls3 conversion. It has ls3 emblems on the front fenders (little tacky to me lol) and says it on the motor cover too. These are easy add-ons obviously but it gets better. So I look at the rpo codes in the trunk under the carpet and sure enough, it has l99 in there. Tells me it came out the factory with an l99 not an ls3. Then..we find the original window sticker in the glovebox. Top left under standard features, it lists "Engine 6.3L w/SFI", and "6 speed manual". So right there tells me yes, should be an ls3 so far. But over on the right of the window sticker under options, it lists the RS package with all the typical RS stuff, then right under that, it says "Transmission 6-speed Automatic 1,185 w/tap shift and remote start".
Other things I noticed are it has a borla atak axle back, cai, and what look like brand new foose wheels and micky thompson street comp tires, lol. Which is disappointing since the RS wheels are gone. So what's up with this car with the ls3/auto? Is this just a badged and converted l99? Any way to easily tell, if it's just a converted l99 without tearing the top off the motor in the dealers lot?

[MrChrisLS3]

automatic = L99 period. Standard equip listed on the left is superseded by optional equipment usually listed on the right. It still has the 6.2L SFI, however it will be the L99. From the factory

Now, what all the badges and such mean, who knows. There may some stamping on the heads somewhere, but I honestly don't know what to look for or where. It may be possible that the P.O. did a head swap?

[pyroguy]

First things first, welcome to the forums! There's all kinds of great info to be learned here.

Second, the car was originally a L99 because all automatics come with a L99. The standard setup is LS3/6 speed manual, that's why it says on standard equipment LS3. However, the option of the 6 speed automatic adds the L99 engine automatically, which is why you see the RPO code L99 in the trunk. Unless the car has a cam I highly doubt the car has been converted to a LS3. The badges are just add ons. When I bought my car the previous owner put 427 hp badges on mine. Luckily I had them removed before it impacted the paint because L99 cars don't have 427hp (neither do LS3 cars). Automatics have 400 and manuals have 426.

IMO, if you want a coupe with a manual, pass on this car. You'll be happier with the car you want vs the car that's there right now.

[Gordy87]

Could be that its had an LS3 conversion done to the motor, which basically is doing away with the AFM (DOD) and or the VVT.

[myold88]

Sounds like a rebuilt theft recovery. See if it has a Salvage title.
Personally I would walk away.

[lemontwist]

PASS on the vert for what you want if you can travel there are quite a few good finds to be had. wait
https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=563349

[InFiD3ViL]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

automatic = L99 period.

Well, not necessarily. But factory? Of course.

It is entirely possible it could have had an LS3 swapped in like what I did. If I was to ever sell my car it would be sold as an LS3 (Swapped) Camaro SS automatic. But I of course would disclose the engine swap and the fact that it was originally built from the factory as an L99 car so people weren't left having to guess. Then again, I have no LS3 badging on my car.

There are also those that chose to ignore the fact that they have an L99 and play it off as an LS3, as if it has more 'prestige' and is more well known, no matter how tasteless/lame that may sound to some.

Originally Posted by Gordy87

Could be that its had an LS3 conversion done to the motor, which basically is doing away with the AFM (DOD) and or the VVT.

But most people would still consider that an L99, especially if VVT was kept. I don't know of anyone in this forum that would call their LS3 converted L99 an actual LS3...not that it matters unless it is being sold that way. Once the conversion is done there is little difference although most will still retain the lower compression valve relief pistons and 823 heads/solid valves and maybe VVT. That is still not an LS3. But either way, most people are proud enough of their L99s to call them what they are. I loved my L99 and never tried to pass it off otherwise. By the time you have made this many modifications to the engine you may as well just call it as '6.2'. I am seeing a lot more of that once the engines are heavily modified, especially if originally truck based.

[wakespeak]

There was a guy on this site that converted his L99 to an LS3. Search.

[StingrayblueSS]

My window sticker said 6 speed manual ls3 also, but the vin says otherwise

[InFiD3ViL]

Originally Posted by StingrayblueSS

My window sticker said 6 speed manual ls3 also, but the vin says otherwise

That is because most window stickers will list the base model car and components separately from the options, with the automatic being an option.

95tealZ, check the heads and see if they say 823 or 821. This is NOT foolproof, as an LS3 swap could have been done using only the shortblock, but it is worth a shot. If they are 823 heads, it is likely either an L99 converted to LS3 or an L99 with incorrect LS3 badging. If they are 821 heads, you may actually have an LS3. But like I said, there are a few scenarios where this wouldn't really tell the whole story...ie, could be an L99 with LS3 821 heads bolted on. One way to get a more accurate answer is to check the front timing cover. If it is a normal LS2 style cover, it is at minimum an LS3 conversion. If it has the VVT style front cover, it is still an L99 with VVT. You cannot complete an LS3 conversion while retaining the VVT front cover as the cam sensor would be located too far to work work properly.

Bottom line though, do NOT do what I did. While I absolutely love the hell out of my car and could never imagine myself without it, if I had to do all over again I would never have settled for the automatic. If you want a manual, hold out for a good manual that meets your criteria.

Check the VIN, 8th digit. J=L99, W=LS3. That will at least confirm how it was factory spec'd.

L99 VVT style cover on left, LS3 cover on right:

[95tealZ]

Thanks guys for the replies. Definitely walking away from this one. Still curious about it though lol

[InFiD3ViL]

Originally Posted by 95tealZ

Thanks guys for the replies. Definitely walking away from this one. Still curious about it though lol

Probably a good decision. If you want a manual, take your time and find exactly what you want. Don't go into a big purchase like this with regrets.

If you wind up with a 5th gen, make sure to post it here and show us some pics of what you got. Good luck!

[95tealZ]

Originally Posted by InFiD3ViL

That is because most window stickers will list the base model car and components separately from the options, with the automatic being an option.

95tealZ, check the heads and see if they say 823 or 821. This is NOT foolproof, as an LS3 swap could have been done using only the shortblock, but it is worth a shot. If they are 823 heads, it is likely either an L99 converted to LS3 or an L99 with incorrect LS3 badging. If they are 821 heads, you may actually have an LS3. But like I said, there are a few scenarios where this wouldn't really tell the whole story...ie, could be an L99 with LS3 821 heads bolted on. One way to get a more accurate answer is to check the front timing cover. If it is a normal LS2 style cover, it is at minimum an LS3 conversion. If it has the VVT style front cover, it is still an L99 with VVT. You cannot complete an LS3 conversion while retaining the VVT front cover as the cam sensor would be located too far to work work properly.

Bottom line though, do NOT do what I did. While I absolutely love the hell out of my car and could never imagine myself without it, if I had to do all over again I would never have settled for the automatic. If you want a manual, hold out for a good manual that meets your criteria.

Check the VIN, 8th digit. J=L99, W=LS3. That will at least confirm how it was factory spec'd.

L99 VVT style cover on left, LS3 cover on right:

I got a pic of the heads while I was there because hey, I'm a 4th gen guy and you know how we are about our heads, lol. Says 823 clear as day...

[95tealZ]

Here's a pic...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tpcyuh61o8...30634.jpg?dl=0