[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

sorry,its still a dodge.

So...what do you want it to be ...a Toyotta?

[SDG23]

I'm not a huge Dodge fan but I'll give them credit, they really seem to want to sell their product. They've got cool commercials and put out cool cars, I know the Challenger platform is a bit dated by now, but I wouldn't have any issues owning a 6.4L Scat Pack. Compare one of those to a '19 Camaro and quite frankly I'd rather have the Challenger based on looks alone.



Yesterday I saw two more lame ass Chevy commercials, hipsters picking options and viola, a plain jane Chevy Cruze pops out and they're all excited....GM you have some dog shit commercials.

[z28pat]

I'm not a fan of the dodge , it's just too big , but credit is due to them for their aggressive marketing and options available , car colors , stripes ,badges and really embracing the muscle car and not being apologetic for it

[Fraxum]

LOL to Dodge. I have run Scat Pack (392) autos (forget the manuals) many times And only in great air and good track prep can they touch very high 11s with a lot of seat time.

So this is just about even with the SS A8. BUT Most auto 392s run around the mid 12s. My opinion the SS can more easily get into the low 12.2s.

And one more thing. Bolton SSes are now getting well into the 10s. What about bolton 392s? And also 392s (I am told by Dodge fans) are a little delicate and you cannot go big on power. A8 FI SSes without a ton of mods are hitting mid to low 10s.

So if Dodge did not add any power then you can take the seats out of the SS and get to the same times, same day, same driver.

While for sure Dodge's marketing is better than Chevys, the 392s are a much bigger and heavier car and do not drive or handle like an SS.

So sorry OP no whupping here.

[torqueaddict]

I'm convinced a big contributor to the Challenger sales is the interior space / family car appeal. For a family of 4 or even 5, the Challenger can function well enough as the only car. That's a huge plus for the average buyer.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

....the 392s are a much bigger and heavier car and do not drive or handle like an SS.

This is nothing new. We've known this for years now. At least they're actually taking chances and making some really cool stuff on that old platform.

No one does a better job of embracing their heritage than Dodge does. Period. Chevy could easily offer a Camaro that's focused on drag racing like the 1320 Challenger but they won't do it.

The thing about all of these high end Challenger models is that they build excitement for the low end stuff. The stuff that most folks can afford. That helps drive sales. GM needs to take notes from Dodge in advertising and building excitement.

Personally I think GM needs to do something different with Camaro and quick. Over a 30% sales decrease year over year for Camaro while the others are gaining. I've even noticed the decrease here at work. Last year, we couldn't keep 1LEs on the lot and now they're just sitting here.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

Personally I think GM needs to do something different with Camaro and quick. Over a 30% sales decrease year over year for Camaro while the others are gaining. I've even noticed the decrease here at work. Last year, we couldn't keep 1LEs on the lot and now they're just sitting here.

The 2019 refresh may have had something to do with that lack of movement as well. People were waiting to see what's coming.

[RenegadeXR]

Originally Posted by hworth18

$45k for a brick that is only .2 seconds quicker than a bone stock A8 Camaro? I'd rather have the Camaro that can handle the twisties as well.

Actually, for $45k, that puts it in Camaro 1SS 1LE territory for prices. I rather have one of those. You get a better track car, two seats, and an extra 8 MPG more. I know the Scat Pack 1320 is considered a drag car, but it does make a lot of sacrifices. It sounds like it's a lot less usable as a daily driver. The Challenger is using pretty brute force methods to achieve a slightly higher speed -- bigger engine, less weight.

Originally Posted by Cgocifer

Dodge is killing it, plain and simple. Excellent advertising, marketing, and branding. The no holds barred, politically incorrect, unapologetic attitude is refreshing. This is 1960s stuff while other companies are ashamed to tout HP, smoky burnouts, and brute force. They have a ton of models and choices for the consumer too. Dodge gets it. I just wish GM would take some lessons.

Dodge is definitely handling this old-school style. A page right out of the muscle car era. With all the dozens of trims and packs for the Challenger over the last 10 years, I have to sort of wonder if some of the rarer combinations will end up being collectors items. That's assuming they finally stop producing the current gen Challenger in the next 50 years or so though. ;P

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

The 2019 refresh may have had something to do with that lack of movement as well. People were waiting to see what's coming.

Yeah, and now that we've seen the 2019, Dodge sales should continue to do well.

You gotta advertise to the public to excite them about your brand. They may not want a muscle car, but maybe they leave in a Durango.

That is not to say lets run 50 Camaro commercials, but the real people campaign is a total snoozefest. Who enjoys a survey experience? Now who enjoys watching commercials?

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by RenegadeXR

I have to sort of wonder if some of the rarer combinations will end up being collectors items.

The Demon will, since they just stopped production on it. Granted the Hellcat Redeye or whatever they're calling it is it's performance replacement, but it's still not a "Demon".

[detltu]

Originally Posted by Cgocifer

Dodge is killing it, plain and simple. Excellent advertising, marketing, and branding. The no holds barred, politically incorrect, unapologetic attitude is refreshing. This is 1960s stuff while other companies are ashamed to tout HP, smoky burnouts, and brute force. They have a ton of models and choices for the consumer too. Dodge gets it. I just wish GM would take some lessons.

Meanwhile Ford is killing cars and Chevy has polite, real people lame ass commercials with vanilla sedans, trucks, and SUVs.

Anyway, this 1320 Challenger may be faster in a straight line, but it should be. Its built for drag racing. The Camaro and Mustang would still kill it in the twisties. All depends what you want out of a car.

Agree, I love Chevy as much as the next guy, but Dodge has the market figured out right now.

I am more into autocross and road course so these don't appeal to me, but the vast majority of people who "race" their cars are drag racers (and street bragging rights come in a straight line as well). Dodge is catering to those across the line. The demon, The hellcat (and now redeye), and now the 1320.

I'm glad Chevy doesn't have a singular focus on drag racing, but I would love to see them formally offer a drag pack on the SS and ZL1. It wouldn't be for me, but a lot of people would probably like it.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by F1FTY

Yeah, and now that we've seen the 2019, Dodge sales should continue to do well.

You gotta advertise to the public to excite them about your brand. They may not want a muscle car, but maybe they leave in a Durango.

That is not to say lets run 50 Camaro commercials, but the real people campaign is a total snoozefest. Who enjoys a survey experience? Now who enjoys watching commercials?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...wth-last-month

GM sales seem to be doing quite well.

I visited several Chevy dealers and they were all packed with people. All sales desks were occupied. And the Camaros were right there in plain view. I saw lots of older buyers with kids. The Camaro will not work for them.

Sure, visibility is a problem for the less confident drivers, however, it can be overlooked if there was family-friendly space. A Challenger isn't exactly devoid of blind spots yet you see short people who can hardly see over the steering wheel driving them. Why? Because it isn't enough of a compromise.

So why does the mustang sell you ask? Simply because it's a Mustang. It's a brand that resonates with the public. It's the first thing that comes to many people's minds when they think Muscle car. Hell, even I got seduced at first and almost picked up one. Also, the owners are extremely loyal. You see people with blown engines and messed up trannies going right back into one. It's a sad but true fact.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

This is nothing new. We've known this for years now. At least they're actually taking chances and making some really cool stuff on that old platform.

No one does a better job of embracing their heritage than Dodge does. Period. Chevy could easily offer a Camaro that's focused on drag racing like the 1320 Challenger but they won't do it.

The thing about all of these high end Challenger models is that they build excitement for the low end stuff. The stuff that most folks can afford. That helps drive sales. GM needs to take notes from Dodge in advertising and building excitement.

Personally I think GM needs to do something different with Camaro and quick. Over a 30% sales decrease year over year for Camaro while the others are gaining. I've even noticed the decrease here at work. Last year, we couldn't keep 1LEs on the lot and now they're just sitting here.

1LEs are a flash in the pan as for sales as some thought they wanted the coolest SS Camaro, which it is. But now many are realizing the standard SS is a better all around car, handles really well and is a great driving car, and is significantly cheaper.

GM is more focused on the road race track type, that is clear. But not many people are all that interested in that, they want muscle and bragging rights.
And many people would like a larger car that you could see out of.

But on the whole I think GM is in a better spot than FCA, Camaro sales not withstanding. But not much better. Cadillac seems out of touch.

Maybe Chevy needs a 850 HP ZL1 Prince of Darkness version (with the LT5 supercharger) which incidentally owns Demons and Hellcats. But they do not seem interested.

Would that really turn things around? I doubt it. I think no matter what Chevy can do short term will help sales. And if I were GM brass I would have to be really arm twisted to approve a next gen anytime soon. Really another platform? Look at the mileage FCA is getting out of the old Mercedes E class platform. Can we learn from them?

Chevy building the best driving Pony car doesn't seem to mean much to most buyers. The CA6 Camaro most resembles a Corvette with an unusable back seat. So it is stealing some Corvette sales and conquests. But so many other buyers don't want that or don't get it.

That being said they will have to pry my Camaro out of my cold dead hands. I don't see what they could do to make me want another one.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Maybe Chevy needs a 850 HP ZL1 Prince of Darkness version (with the LT5 supercharger) which incidentally owns Demons and Hellcats. But they do not seem interested.

ZL1 "Exorcist" edition...puts all the residents of hell in their place.