[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

Everything that was claimed or published was backed up with testing, Magnuson had a verified SAE J1723 Supercharger Performance stand in which competitor SC were tested and compared for both SC and Intercooler performance. I'm sorry, but as delivered the Edelbrock is a rather poor performing unit. It's SC inlet was too restrictive causing poor Volumetric Efficiency and it intercooler had low pressure drop (good) but poor effectiveness (bad) due to a low fin count in the reasonable sized intercooler core.

I'm sure I wouldn't recommend an interchiller (not a fan), but everything from my C7 Z06 is accurate. Many people tend to forget that I had an LT Engine on the Engine Dyno at Magnuson running tests and developing an understanding for LT tuning parameters since 2014. There isn't a calibration value inside that engine from Cam Timing to SOI that I didn't understand and optimized for the combination on my cars. Please don't think for a minute that you're going to throw a 2650 on your car, tune it yourself and expect the same results in an afternoon. Even the 700+ HP pulls on pump gas were the result of upwards of 50-60 chassis dyno pulls after extensive engine dyno pulls to hit that WOT tune. I wasn't limited on dyno time, resources, or education relating to the LT engine to optimize the system. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done, you just might not have worked at it as hard or had the resources that I had...

I've always said off the shelf the maggi was better but once the edlebrock is ported its better. And I always made the claim it's cheaper still even factoring the porting cost. The bricks do not factor in as much as the velocity and flow through the blower that gives the better IATs and the porters know this just like the all the CAI people more flow and velocity better IATs. I have posted my IATs and Manifold air temps and compared maggi's to mine and mine are better did no modifications to the brick. You made it sound so fancy that when you accelerate the IATs drop you never tested an Edelbrock the same way otherwise would know that there's do as well. just a cool sales marketing attempt just like the R when all eaton 2650 are R.

EDL LT4 2650 4800/5200 when released plus 1175 kong porting MAX $6375 (not what I paid but that's what it would cost and joe)
MAG LT4 2650 6200 plus 399 for 103mm or 112mm $6600
Not sure what prices are now days no reason to keep up with them.

The verified test mean nothing. When either blower is mounted to an lt1 or lt4 car the dynos #s are very close hp wise but the EDL IATs are higher I agree. If you just put the blowers in some type of bench flow test and the brick as well it not a good enough test. I've been over at Vararam testing site and seen the flow test machine everything looks really good on bench sometimes but once installed the results aren't the same. I'm sorry you should of spent countless hours tuning an edelbrock to back up your statements. Better yet an independent company. Your findings of the competition's unit holds more weight because the ls2300 was garbage and people have a sour taste in there mouth that we can agree upon. the LT2300 is a pretty good unit and resembles the maggi 2300 pretty close with same results in performance.

Your right your inlet is a lot better the rotors are more exposed with not a lot of casting material covering them up hardly. I assume this is the what you describe in the video "all the 2650 units come with stage 2 porting" Once the edelbrock is opened up like the maggi the Edelbrock is better and more efficient! *SEE PIC*

BTW I did see Joker's was going to offer a ported maggi 2650 and I'm sure it would out perform the EDL but it looked to coast about 10k once done. That was with the new price increase,112mm snout, and Brett's Porting.

Its funny Edelbrock has been around so long they do not have to come onto these forums or social media and make claims against other competitors. It's oblivious they build there units focusing on giving a customer a good product that lasts longer and built more rigid vs all out performance. There strategy is more toward a customer can buy a unit, install it, and enjoy it for years and years. They would tear ya'll up with on the customer service side and are more professional than ya'll going on my experiences when i needed there help and when I've called you guys. For instance the older lady that answered the phones knows didily squat, then when transferred to an older guy was pushed in to a 2300 blower not to mention the zillion times i was given a false release date. Edelbrock had always handle any warranty claims and sent numerous parts without asking any questions.. for example a Break out harness, pcv seals, lid cover gaskets.. also they sent me the blower lid CAD file so I could make a lid spacer. its been so hassle free dealing with them. I couldn't even place an order or get on list or have all my questions answered dealing with ya'll.

I have nothing to do w Edelbrock not a sponsor nothing but I'll be damn'd if I let someone bash them when there's not all that much difference and the test performed were not side by side comparisons just flow tests and charts no dyno runs on same car tuning it to the max. if you go by the CAN tunes the blowers are to even to call! Your welcome to use my blower for a side by side now that's open like your inlet or send me one of your off the shelf units and ill pay for the dyno time of course we will need to drop down to an all DI setup since you have no port injection well you do but that's extra to.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

I've always said off the shelf the maggi was better but once the edlebrock is ported its better. And I always made the claim it's cheaper still even factoring the porting cost. The bricks do not factor in as much as the velocity and flow through the blower that gives the better IATs and the porters know this just like the all the CAI people more flow and velocity better IATs. I have posted my IATs and Manifold air temps and compared maggi's to mine and mine are better did no modifications to the brick. You made it sound so fancy that when you accelerate the IATs drop you never tested an Edelbrock the same way otherwise would know that there's do as well. just a cool sales marketing attempt just like the R when all eaton 2650 are R.

EDL LT4 2650 4800/5200 when released plus 1175 kong porting MAX $6375 (not what I paid but that's what it would cost and joe)
MAG LT4 2650 6200 plus 399 for 103mm or 112mm $6600
Not sure what prices are now days no reason to keep up with them.

The verified test mean nothing. When either blower is mounted to an lt1 or lt4 car the dynos #s are very close hp wise but the EDL IATs are higher I agree. If you just put the blowers in some type of bench flow test and the brick as well it not a good enough test. I've been over at Vararam testing site and seen the flow test machine everything looks really good on bench sometimes but once installed the results aren't the same. I'm sorry you should of spent countless hours tuning an edelbrock to back up your statements. Better yet an independent company. Your findings of the competition's unit holds more weight because the ls2300 was garbage and people have a sour taste in there mouth that we can agree upon. the LT2300 is a pretty good unit and resembles the maggi 2300 pretty close with same results in performance.

Your right your inlet is a lot better the rotors are more exposed with not a lot of casting material covering them up hardly. I assume this is the what you describe in the video "all the 2650 units come with stage 2 porting" Once the edelbrock is opened up like the maggi the Edelbrock is better and more efficient! *SEE PIC*

BTW I did see Joker's was going to offer a ported maggi 2650 and I'm sure it would out perform the EDL but it looked to coast about 10k once done. That was with the new price increase,112mm snout, and Brett's Porting.

Its funny Edelbrock has been around so long they do not have to come onto these forums or social media and make claims against other competitors. It's oblivious they build there units focusing on giving a customer a good product that lasts longer and built more rigid vs all out performance. There strategy is more toward a customer can buy a unit, install it, and enjoy it for years and years. They would tear ya'll up with on the customer service side and are more professional than ya'll going on my experiences when i needed there help and when I've called you guys. For instance the older lady that answered the phones knows didily squat, then when transferred to an older guy was pushed in to a 2300 blower not to mention the zillion times i was given a false release date. Edelbrock had always handle any warranty claims and sent numerous parts without asking any questions.. for example a Break out harness, pcv seals, lid cover gaskets.. also they sent me the blower lid CAD file so I could make a lid spacer. its been so hassle free dealing with them. I couldn't even place an order or get on list or have all my questions answered dealing with ya'll.

I have nothing to do w Edelbrock not a sponsor nothing but I'll be damn'd if I let someone bash them when there's not all that much difference and the test performed were not side by side comparisons just flow tests and charts no dyno runs on same car tuning it to the max. if you go by the CAN tunes the blowers are to even to call! Your welcome to use my blower for a side by side now that's open like your inlet or send me one of your off the shelf units and ill pay for the dyno time of course we will need to drop down to an all DI setup since you have no port injection well you do but that's extra to.

So to summarize this now 2+ year old rant strictly from a performance perspective.

Out of the box, off the shelf for both = Magnuson will perform better

Ported Edelbrock against an off the shelf Magnuson = tie. There have been enough max effort setups on the track to show there is nothing beyond maybe a dyno somewhere to say one is better.

Both units ported by Jokerz/Kong = Magnuson wins, hands down

I highly doubt people looking to get the most out these are going to split hairs over a couple thousand dollars, considering a built engine is going to be required along with a pricey fuel system. In the case of a ported Maggie you’ll need a sleeved engine to use all it can give.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

So to summarize this now 2+ year old rant strictly from a performance perspective.

Out of the box, off the shelf for both = Magnuson will perform better

Ported Edelbrock against an off the shelf Magnuson = tie. There have been enough max effort setups on the track to show there is nothing beyond maybe a dyno somewhere to say one is better.

Both units ported by Jokerz/Kong = Magnuson wins, hands down

I highly doubt people looking to get the most out these are going to split hairs over a couple thousand dollars, considering a built engine is going to be required along with a pricey fuel system. In the case of a ported Maggie you’ll need a sleeved engine to use all it can give.

Yes pretty much, just that I've argued that maggi comes somewhat ported off the shelf as mentioned in his video and is more expensive justifying it so it's not Apple to apples until the edelbrock is opened up the same amount and since the price is lower on edelbrock adding the porting to it makes it apples to apple's now w performance and costs. The pros and cons are 103mm is standard on the edelbrock and it's setup for a better port injection focusing the angle straight down on thee intake valves vs the fuel rail spacers. Downside is clearancing the hood for the edelbrock. But one could argue the down side of the maggi is buying after market covers or clearance the stock valve covers and having to pull blower off to do some type of inspection on the valve train, replacing a port injector.

But ya both great blowers. Just no love for the edelbrock except in the mustang world they have beat maggy in the Eaton show down a lot. Honestly I don't think it matters what you have it's all about traction not the blower unit.

[JSH]

I should be driving Kong's ported "Eddie" [I just made that up] by the end of the month. I've never owned a Maggie. Does it have the same Eaton TVS rotor pack?

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

Yes pretty much, just that I've argued that maggi comes somewhat ported off the shelf as mentioned in his video and is more expensive justifying it so it's not Apple to apples until the edelbrock is opened up the same amount and since the price is lower on edelbrock adding the porting to it makes it apples to apple's now w performance and costs. The pros and cons are 103mm is standard on the edelbrock and it's setup for a better port injection focusing the angle straight down on thee intake valves vs the fuel rail spacers. Downside is clearancing the hood for the edelbrock. But one could argue the down side of the maggi is buying after market covers or clearance the stock valve covers and having to pull blower off to do some type of inspection on the valve train, replacing a port injector.

But ya both great blowers. Just no love for the edelbrock except in the mustang world they have beat maggy in the Eaton show down a lot. Honestly I don't think it matters what you have it's all about traction not the blower unit.

All of those points, while maybe valid, are irrelevant to most that are looking to really push a 2650. I think there is a sweet spot in the ~1k RWHP area where they mean a lot for someone who is happy at that level and wants to consider convenience, maintenance, and perhaps cost. For many others that power level is just a stop along the way so they make their decision based on the max proven potential.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by JSH

I should be driving Kong's ported "Eddie" [I just made that up] by the end of the month. I've never owned a Maggie. Does it have the same Eaton TVS rotor pack?

Yep, same rotors. Just much different housings and cooling designs.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

Yep, same rotors. Just much different housings and cooling designs.

Will this lid fit my 2650? https://kongperformance.com/collecti...ass-billet-lid

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by JSH

Will this lid fit my 2650? https://kongperformance.com/collecti...ass-billet-lid

Nope, it isn’t for the LT Edelbrock 2650. I’m not sure I’ve seen an aftermarket lid for that blower.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

Nope, it isn’t for the LT Edelbrock 2650. I’m not sure I’ve seen an aftermarket lid for that blower.

This might work https://weaponxmotorsports.com/produ...15699221282865

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by JSH

This might work https://weaponxmotorsports.com/produ...15699221282865

Looks like it. I’m not familiar with it.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

All of those points, while maybe valid, are irrelevant to most that are looking to really push a 2650. I think there is a sweet spot in the ~1k RWHP area where they mean a lot for someone who is happy at that level and wants to consider convenience, maintenance, and perhaps cost. For many others that power level is just a stop along the way so they make their decision based on the max proven potential.

I agree but more are making 1000 plus w the Eddie then maggi simply because the cost not the performance of 1 being better than the other. A big thanks to crawfords setup more than likely I see 1000s of builds of people just installing the maggy and out of money for a fuel system but they are very happy. Or there using a shop like janetty that can't tune both port and di and forces the customer to spend upwards of 16k for fueling leaving then stuck at 850. Of course that's plenty I wanted the most with out tearing up my stock block and the most efficient way. Not to mention I needed to prove the Eddie was better when ported. I draw this conclusion on the fact of an 8.3 lower and 3 upper. Of course im going of jannettys build of a 10 plus lower and 3
upper to bust me being all Di he should of past me by along ways since DI is more efficient than port and can tune it more precisely, but no! I'm not even using 1/4 of my port system and have plenty of pulley combos left.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

I agree but more are making 1000 plus w the Eddie then maggi simply because the cost not the performance of 1 being better than the other. A big thanks to crawfords setup more than likely I see 1000s of builds of people just installing the maggy and out of money for a fuel system but they are very happy. Or there using a shop like janetty that can't tune both port and di and forces the customer to spend upwards of 16k for fueling leaving then stuck at 850. Of course that's plenty I wanted the most with out tearing up my stock block and the most efficient way. Not to mention I needed to prove the Eddie was better when ported. I draw this conclusion on the fact of an 8.3 lower and 3 upper. Of course im going of jannettys build of a 10 plus lower and 3
upper to bust me being all Di he should of past me by along ways since DI is more efficient than port and can tune it more precisely, but no! I'm not even using 1/4 of my port system and have plenty of pulley combos left.

TooHighPSI plates are only $800 so I wouldn’t see that as being a make or break on fueling. Both blowers will need extra injectors, some kind of low side, and something to control them for port injection. Am I missing something that is making them that much harder to fuel? I don’t keep a tally of which ones have more builds over 1k RWHP, but I rarely see Eddie’s even being installed these days in the community and I often seen Maggie’s, with many over 1k. That by no means is an actual measurement, just what stands out.

I hate to tell you, but I think you were trying to prove a point comparing to the wrong people. Some of us hit the track with every combo and back up everything we did on the dyno. Don’t know that I’ve ever seen a Jannetty car racing at all. I think I mentioned what I did with your same blower RPM in this thread with an off the shelf Maggie before it was aftermarket ported, but again we are talking dyno’s of two completely different shops on different cars with different transmissions. Total waste of time.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

TooHighPSI plates are only $800 so I wouldn’t see that as being a make or break on fueling. Both blowers will need extra injectors, some kind of low side, and something to control them for port injection. Am I missing something that is making them that much harder to fuel? I don’t keep a tally of which ones have more builds over 1k RWHP, but I rarely see Eddie’s even being installed these days in the community and I often seen Maggie’s, with many over 1k. That by no means is an actual measurement, just what stands out.

I hate to tell you, but I think you were trying to prove a point comparing to the wrong people. Some of us hit the track with every combo and back up everything we did on the dyno. Don’t know that I’ve ever seen a Jannetty car racing at all. I think I mentioned what I did with your same blower RPM in this thread with an off the shelf Maggie before it was aftermarket ported, but again we are talking dyno’s of two completely different shops on different cars with different transmissions. Total waste of time.

I may of missed it what was it on E only no meth and the compression?

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

I may of missed it what was it on E only no meth and the compression?

It was on C16 since there wasn’t a port option at the time. E would have definitely made more if it could have flowed it. It was a stock bottom end with ported stock heads, stock compression. But again, different dyno, different days and an auto not a manual.