[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

It was on C16 since there wasn’t a port option at the time. E would have definitely made more if it could have flowed it. It was a stock bottom end with ported stock heads, stock compression. But again, different dyno, different days and an auto not a manual.

But c16 is 117 octane and e85 pump is 100 to 105 maybe. Can't compare e85 one ethanol R which is 117 plus.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

But c16 is 117 octane and e85 pump is 100 to 105 maybe. Can't compare e85 one ethanol R which is 117 plus.

All of these comparisons are silly. It went over 153 MPH at 4,150 lbs in over the 2k DA. Type that into any calculator you can find and let me know what you find. ;-)

Here is proof that counts because that’s how this should be done.

https://instagram.com/p/B2Y9AayF4Ev/

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

All of these comparisons are silly. It went over 153 MPH at 4,150 lbs in over the 2k DA. Type that into any calculator you can find and let me know what you find. ;-)

Here is proof that counts because that’s how this should be done.

https://instagram.com/p/B2Y9AayF4Ev/

https://ls1tech.com/articles/worlds-...6g-camaro-zl1/

Again it's all about traction not the blower.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

https://ls1tech.com/articles/worlds-...6g-camaro-zl1/

Again it's all about traction not the blower.

Talley had a more aggressive pulley combo and I’m sure you’re aware it wasn’t full weight. All in all it’s useless comparison for the argument of “a ported Edelbrock is better than an off the shelf Maggie”. Your argument was based on what your car did versus the Maggie at the same blower speed from another shop. I showed you my car proving the power it made on the track at the blower speed.

I’m very aware of traction being needed and can show multiple passes of my car running 8.40 - 8.50’s with 1.20 60’s before I just added over 200 RWHP more and dropped weight. What is the quickest LT Edelbrock you’ve seen?

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

Talley had a more aggressive pulley combo and I’m sure you’re aware it wasn’t full weight. All in all it’s useless comparison for the argument of “a ported Edelbrock is better than an off the shelf Maggie”. Your argument was based on what your car did versus the Maggie at the same blower speed from another shop. I showed you my car proving the power it made on the track at the blower speed.

I’m very aware of traction being needed and can show multiple passes of my car running 8.40 - 8.50’s with 1.20 60’s before I just added over 200 RWHP more and dropped weight. What is the quickest LT Edelbrock you’ve seen?

It doesn't matter like I said its all about traction LMP has a 8 sec stock blower pass. It really doesn't matter what's bolted on top as long as you have good traction. They also have a 1200 plus edelbrock with 10 lower and 2.75 upper that had pulley slip down 3 to 5 psi. edelbrock doesn't have a CTS, Camaro, or mustang for that matter that they sponsor at the track like maggi does so its up to the individuals and his or hers personal budget to get it down the track the quickest. No one who takes racing serious like yourself wants to invest into to something that gat a bad wrap from a crappy LS blower and they never will with marketing tactics of Toohigh, shizzy and lan using shop money for the bragging rights to say there the quickest and data that they found not a independent company and no blower testing on the same car. your doing good things with your car hopefully some of these big edelbrock builds will get out to the track now that covid seems to have settled down and spend some money setting it up right to give you some competition. I believe the one that makes the most power more efficiently with equal traction should be the quickest. Not the one with less power and better traction.



This was the Magnusson 2650 car I was making a comparison with.



Video Build

TSP 427 * 10.8 compression
Lower thermostat*
ARH 2 inch *
112mm
PRE Heads*
2.75 upper*
9.17 lower*
All DI*
M6
DYNOJET* 1101

VS Mine

Stock block stock compression
1 3/4 headers
112mm
Stock ported lt4 castings
3.0 upper
8.3 lower
DI and Port
M6
Mustang/Hub 1004/1044

That car had every advantage on mine and barley edged me in power that is how I draw the conclusion that the kong once ported is better. You can't build a cars motor any better maybe the LME edelbrock heads might do a tad better. I know dynos are dynos and really holds no weight.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

No one who takes racing serious like yourself wants to invest into to something that gat a bad wrap from a crappy LS blower and they never will with marketing tactics of Toohigh, shizzy and lan using shop money for the bragging rights to say there the quickest and data that they found not a independent company and no blower testing on the same car. your doing good things with your car hopefully some of these big edelbrock builds will get out to the track now that covid seems to have settled down and spend some money setting it up right to give you some competition. I believe the one that makes the most power more efficiently with equal traction should be the quickest. Not the one with less power and better traction.

Absolutely correct. Outside of any marketing tactics, with both being out as long as they have and so many proven builds, there is little reason to take on 'trial and error' in this area of a new build. Unfortunately, the bad impressions from the LS blower lingers. Vengeance Racing set a rule years ago, before the 2650, to never install or even put an Edelbrock blower car on the dyno due to catastrophic failures. Recently, they had a customer bring a Kong Edelbrock 2650 for an install/tune and it became the first 2650 to ever fail from either brand for them. This customer wanted to spin it hard and that's what they tried to do. Absolutely could have been a fluke, but when they've had a bad product in the past, they don't get many chances to change people's mind. I actually bought a second Maggie and have it on standby as I assume eventually mine will fail as well.

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

I know dynos are dynos and really holds no weight.

Exactly, dynos in no way can show that a similar power adder is better than another unless its on the same car, same dyno, same tire pressure (assuming a drum based dyno), etc. Just like the Mustang vs DynoJet debate. Until recently Vengeance had always ran my car STD on a DynoJet, which means it "should" have inflated numbers, but then I have stacks of slips that says if anything it is conservative on my car. At the same time, I'll see "on a Mustang dyno it did x" guys trapping under what they should using their own claimed weight.

As soon as this industry can accept that a chassis dyno is just a tuning tool for the single car in question, the easier and more friendly many of these discussions will be. This is why I say the car gained "200 RWHP" and don't really tout the number it made on the dyno because I know its a new dyno for my car and often times it seems to read a little high on other cars. What I do know is that it gained over 8 psi of boost from the last time and it is on Ignite Red vs standard ethanol. I'll feel better saying how much power it makes once its dialed in at the track and compare it to the dyno.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

Absolutely correct. Outside of any marketing tactics, with both being out as long as they have and so many proven builds, there is little reason to take on 'trial and error' in this area of a new build. Unfortunately, the bad impressions from the LS blower lingers. Vengeance Racing set a rule years ago, before the 2650, to never install or even put an Edelbrock blower car on the dyno due to catastrophic failures. Recently, they had a customer bring a Kong Edelbrock 2650 for an install/tune and it became the first 2650 to ever fail from either brand for them. This customer wanted to spin it hard and that's what they tried to do. Absolutely could have been a fluke, but when they've had a bad product in the past, they don't get many chances to change people's mind. I actually bought a second Maggie and have it on standby as I assume eventually mine will fail as well.



Exactly, dynos in no way can show that a similar power adder is better than another unless its on the same car, same dyno, same tire pressure (assuming a drum based dyno), etc. Just like the Mustang vs DynoJet debate. Until recently Vengeance had always ran my car STD on a DynoJet, which means it "should" have inflated numbers, but then I have stacks of slips that says if anything it is conservative on my car. At the same time, I'll see "on a Mustang dyno it did x" guys trapping under what they should using their own claimed weight.

As soon as this industry can accept that a chassis dyno is just a tuning tool for the single car in question, the easier and more friendly many of these discussions will be. This is why I say the car gained "200 RWHP" and don't really tout the number it made on the dyno because I know its a new dyno for my car and often times it seems to read a little high on other cars. What I do know is that it gained over 8 psi of boost from the last time and it is on Ignite Red vs standard ethanol. I'll feel better saying how much power it makes once its dialed in at the track and compare it to the dyno.

Who tunes your car?

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by JSH

Who tunes your car?

Elite Tuning (guys who worked at Vengeance and opened their own business) does the stock ECU portion and the shop foreman for Vengeance does the Holley. It is all done in house at Vengeance and on the track in collaboration.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

Absolutely correct. Outside of any marketing tactics, with both being out as long as they have and so many proven builds, there is little reason to take on 'trial and error' in this area of a new build. Unfortunately, the bad impressions from the LS blower lingers. Vengeance Racing set a rule years ago, before the 2650, to never install or even put an Edelbrock blower car on the dyno due to catastrophic failures. Recently, they had a customer bring a Kong Edelbrock 2650 for an install/tune and it became the first 2650 to ever fail from either brand for them. This customer wanted to spin it hard and that's what they tried to do. Absolutely could have been a fluke, but when they've had a bad product in the past, they don't get many chances to change people's mind. I actually bought a second Maggie and have it on standby as I assume eventually mine will fail as well.

They aren't the only ones that made similar rules for Edelbrock blowers. The shop didn't do it because of a failure as much as the cooling, in their opinion, was garbage. Funny - because they completely changed the design of that blower, later, but whatever.

The comparisons suggested earlier (not all) just don't seem apples-to-apples, but whatever. I guess some people just can't/won't let things go.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by radz28

They aren't the only ones that made similar rules for Edelbrock blowers. The shop didn't do it because of a failure as much as the cooling, in their opinion, was garbage. Funny - because they completely changed the design of that blower, later, but whatever.

The comparisons suggested earlier (not all) just don't seem apples-to-apples, but whatever. I guess some people just can't/won't let things go.

For full transparency, the owner of Vengeance told me to wait to buy my second/standby Magnuson until they gave the Edelbrock a try. The customer wanted similar power/results to what I was getting, had that already, and the thought was that it would be easier to get our hands on in a rush if needed considering the turnaround time on Magnuson's. So we definitely aren't just bias because and open to whatever, but it has to prove itself.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

For full transparency, the owner of Vengeance told me to wait to buy my second/standby Magnuson until they gave the Edelbrock a try. The customer wanted similar power/results to what I was getting, had that already, and the thought was that it would be easier to get our hands on in a rush if needed considering the turnaround time on Magnuson's. So we definitely aren't just bias because and open to whatever, but it has to prove itself.

Like you, in the interest of transparency - I don't even have an opinion on Edelbrocks, really. This pissing match, and repeating, is just really exhausting, and it's just close to getting shut down. Obviously - no one really cares about that part of this thread. It doesn't make any sense to me to try to compare what's being compared, but whatever. Maybe I'm missing something.

I do appreciate Members, like you, bringing in more new and relevant comments though. It's interesting to hear what other shops are experiencing and seeing. The shop I was referring to actually has showcased more Edelbrock content - I can't think of any Maggie 2650 builds, actually. There were some 2300s, but they even use the Kong 2650s a fair bit. I think they lean more toward Prochargers, honestly, but they have nothing nice to say about the 2300 Edelbrocks. After getting that kind of reputation - it's difficult to shake it off.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Figured I'd add this to the thread. To my knowledge, and everyone I've checked with, this is the fastest any DI 2650 has been on any platform. We actually have a conservative pulley setup on the Maggie still. The other one will make 3 more psi as shown on the dyno but ran out of time. Went through the traps with a brisk 87 degree MAT temp with it being 88 degrees outside.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by ZL1Atlanta

Figured I'd add this to the thread. To my knowledge, and everyone I've checked with, this is the fastest any DI 2650 has been on any platform. We actually have a conservative pulley setup on the Maggie still. The other one will make 3 more psi as shown on the dyno but ran out of time. Went through the traps with a brisk 87 degree MAT temp with it being 88 degrees outside.

Scorching times! Congrats!

[radz28]

170?! F***