[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Blaqwhole is right the GT* barely eclipsed the R in a drag race. Per your arguments the base GT is slower so you must use the asterisk to be consistent.
GT350R:
C&D: 12.2@119 mph
MT: 12.2@119 mph

GT*:
C&D: 12.1@120
MT: 12.1@119

The extra aero on the R certainly hurts it, just as the 1LE is slower in the 1/4 mile than the base SS or ZL1.

The lack of torque compared to the 5.0 coyote hurts the Shelby as it is a tenth or two slower to 60.

My thoughts: IF the R was equipped with the A10 it would be an 11.8 sec car per those same magazine tests. It would also do 0-60 in 3.6-3.7. Both on par with the ZL1. That would be a game changer. I wish Ford would have done, I might be in a GT350 A10 right now. Maybe. I do love my GT*.

And yes, I admitted the ZL1 is a GT, but so is the R. Dual zone climate, B&O stereo (optional), suede door panels, Sync3, A/C, and is not a harsh ride, etc. My point is don't try to say Fords "race car" can't even beat the Grand tourer ZL1. It's disengenuous because they are both GTs.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Chassis:

Based on reviews, the GT, PP1, and PP2 S550 chassis' leave something to be desired from a balance and confidence standpoint compared to the base SS and SLE. I have seen this in every H2H and can't deny it.

However, the Shelby S550 chassis is every bit as balanced and amazing as the 1LE, according to reviews.

So it's not that the entire S550 chassis is behind, it's the lower tier models. The S550 chassis in the Shelbys are great platforms. The tweaks and tuning made by Ford Performance elevate it to a great chassis at that level.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Blaqwhole is right the GT* barely eclipsed the R in a drag race. Per your arguments the base GT is slower so you must use the asterisk to be consistent.
GT350R:
C&D: 12.2@119 mph
MT: 12.2@119 mph

GT*:
C&D: 12.1@120
MT: 12.1@119

The extra aero on the R certainly hurts it, just as the 1LE is slower in the 1/4 mile than the base SS or ZL1.

The lack of torque compared to the 5.0 coyote hurts the Shelby as it is a tenth or two slower to 60.

My thoughts: IF the R was equipped with the A10 it would be an 11.8 sec car per those same magazine tests. It would also do 0-60 in 3.6-3.7. Both on par with the ZL1. That would be a game changer. I wish Ford would have done, I might be in a GT350 A10 right now. Maybe. I do love my GT*.

And yes, I admitted the ZL1 is a GT, but so is the R. Dual zone climate, B&O stereo (optional), suede door panels, Sync3, A/C, and is not a harsh ride, etc. My point is don't try to say Fords "race car" can't even beat the Grand tourer ZL1. It's disengenuous because they are both GTs.

Blaq is gonna pass out when he reads this because I am agreeing with him haha.

The GT350R is more track car than GT. Yes it can add some of those luxury options back in, but it's primary focus is track performance. It has much more track focused equipment than the ZL1.

Ford learned from the mistake Chevy made with the Z/28. People paying 60+ for a pony car are going to expect some luxury items. I think that is one of the thins that hurt the Z/28 most is you could only option in AC. The 350R you can at least add in all the creature comforts. The Base 350 might be considered a GT car, but the R is definitely more track car.



I honestly don't know how much the A10 would help the 350. It would be interesting to see though

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Chassis:

Based on reviews, the GT, PP1, and PP2 S550 chassis' leave something to be desired from a balance and confidence standpoint compared to the base SS and SLE. I have seen this in every H2H and can't deny it.

However, the Shelby S550 chassis is every bit as balanced and amazing as the 1LE, according to reviews.

So it's not that the entire S550 chassis is behind, it's the lower tier models. The S550 chassis in the Shelbys are great platforms. The tweaks and tuning made by Ford Performance elevate it to a great chassis at that level.

I would still say the S550 is behind the alpha. Even in the most dialed in version of the S550, the lower HP SS 1LE is right behind it. Even the GT PP2 had to use insanely sticky tires to get it to SS 1LE levels.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Ok let's look at this. Do you have a H2H same day between 1LE vs PP2 or any GT350? You and others want to discount the LL results for the PP2 because it wasn't same day yet refer to other non H2H results which also were not same day. Which way is it? Or once again do reviews favorable to the Camaro only count.

The LL wasn’t same day or same driver. The driver mod has the most impact. The other non H2H at least have the same driver and that holds way more weight the the LL Times.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Really? The most shocking thing about that article is the 0-60 times?

What is most shocking to me, is that the PP2 was a second attempt at a performance pack by Ford because the PP1 got COMPLETELY HAMMERED in reviews because it sucked so bad. That car was flopping over on itself like a fish in the bottom of a boat, and not only did the reviewers harshly critisize this, you can clearly see it in the videos. This is not an opnion, it's a fact.

Now the PP2 came out with bigger sways, faster springs, reprogramed Magneride, beter tires, etc., and I thought this would settle the car down like the GT350. I knew that Ford COULD do it becuase they set up the GT350 and the previous gen BOSS very well.

But, I was let down. This article shows that they did another half-@ssed job again. The car is not totally settled down, the MagneRide is still not tuned right, the steering was off (it doesn't even have variable ratio steering, and entry is a problem), and as a result, sounds like you have to fight the thing the whole time to try to stay on your line on the track. Randy's comments are very revealing.

Now, from the Ford camp, all we have heard is "well, it's performance pack, not a track pack, so it's made more for the street than the track". EXCEPT, the gap only widens on the street. Did you see what all the reivewers said about how it drove on the street comapred to the 1LE? It was a disaster of a suspension setup because you are constantly fighting the car to keep in on your line.

And let's not get started about the overheating issue (why put track tires on a suppposedly non-track car, then take it to the track and brag about track times, but not put coolers on it).

The PP2 is a complete failure from a consumer perspective. From Ford's perspecetive, it was great. They got a good lap time from sticky tires, and didn't have to spend much development money doing it. And the Ford sheeple will buy that crap up because of said lap time and cool unique style wheels...

Ford tested the GT350 at the Nurburgring and sorted the car out. The PP2 was not.

Ford fans like to down play the work done at the Ring but it is precisely that effort that keeps Chevy on top.

The PP2 was a off the books, weekend parts bill of material project. Bolt it all together and hope for the best.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Ok let's look at this. Do you have a H2H same day between 1LE vs PP2 or any GT350? You and others want to discount the LL results for the PP2 because it wasn't same day yet refer to other non H2H results which also were not same day. Which way is it? Or once again do reviews favorable to the Camaro only count.

We don't have same day same driver for either car, you brought up the LL and I countered with the MT LS times which at least had the same driver and are a better comparison due to that fact, not because the Camaro was faster.

What the MT article and comparison also provides is direct feedback and comparison from Randy who ran both cars and tells it how it is. Which isn't favorable for the mustang regardless of times or day.

I don't discount the LL lap, it was a great showing for the mustang. I do discredit it when used in an attempt to claim the pp2 is faster the the 1le. A car that is described as being a better more capable track car by those who have driven both. A car that won't quit after one or two laps and is on street tires compared to the psc2's on the pp2.

You quote the LL because you find it favorable to the mustang despite knowing the discrepancies in driver level for those runs and variables, as well as knowing it was not spoken about favorably compared to the 1le in that same article. I quote the MT LS times and article because it was a more controlled comparison with less variables. Reviews that favor the Camaro are not the only ones that count but claiming the LL as some sort of proof that the pp2 is faster knowing there is a more direct comparison and the drivers thoughts on the two cars is fanboyism.

If there was a same day same driver test where the pp2 turns in a faster time I would not be one bit hesitant to admit the pp2 can produce faster lap times, though it'd still be tough to call it a better track car without the track warranty and coolers to run more than one fast lap.. and before anyone says Ford doesn't claim it to be a track car, it is on psc2's.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Blaq is gonna pass out when he reads this because I am agreeing with him haha.

The GT350R is more track car than GT. Yes it can add some of those luxury options back in, but it's primary focus is track performance. It has much more track focused equipment than the ZL1.

Ford learned from the mistake Chevy made with the Z/28. People paying 60+ for a pony car are going to expect some luxury items. I think that is one of the thins that hurt the Z/28 most is you could only option in AC. The 350R you can at least add in all the creature comforts. The Base 350 might be considered a GT car, but the R is definitely more track car.



I honestly don't know how much the A10 would help the 350. It would be interesting to see though



I would still say the S550 is behind the alpha. Even in the most dialed in version of the S550, the lower HP SS 1LE is right behind it. Even the GT PP2 had to use insanely sticky tires to get it to SS 1LE levels.

The base stereo in the R is 9 speakers. Base AC is dual zone. It also has some safety features, tech., etc. My point is it comes standard with a number of options and is not "bare bones" in standard form.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Ford tested the GT350 at the Nurburgring and sorted the car out. The PP2 was not.

Ford fans like to down play the work done at the Ring but it is precisely that effort that keeps Chevy on top.

The PP2 was a off the books, weekend parts bill of material project. Bolt it all together and hope for the best.

I wouldn't say they discredit the work done at the ring, I would say those people discredit the going for record lap times.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The base stereo in the R is 9 speakers. Base AC is dual zone. It also has some safety features, tech., etc. My point is it comes standard with a number of options and is not "bare bones" in standard form.

It has those features as standard now

The 15, 16 and 17 R came standard with 1 speaker and no AC much like the 5th gen Z/28.

You could option all that stuff back in though

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Ford tested the GT350 at the Nurburgring and sorted the car out. The PP2 was not.

Ford fans like to down play the work done at the Ring but it is precisely that effort that keeps Chevy on top.

The PP2 was a off the books, weekend parts bill of material project. Bolt it all together and hope for the best.

Are you sure? It could be that the engineers did such a bad job on the PP1 they had to stay after school and do their homework again. And the PP2 was so bad, Ford decided not to pay them for the extra time...

I just made that up, but that's what I'm going with...

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I wouldn't say they discredit the work done at the ring, I would say those people discredit the going for record lap times.




It has those features as standard now

The 15, 16 and 17 R came standard with 1 speaker and no AC much like the 5th gen Z/28.

You could option all that stuff back in though

I stand corrected on those years.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I wouldn't say they discredit the work done at the ring, I would say those people discredit the going for record lap times.

If they are at the Ring, why wouldn't Chevy go for the record?

The people that discredit Chevy come across as sour grapes

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I wouldn't say they discredit the work done at the ring, I would say those people discredit the going for record lap times.

Seems the only ones that discredit GM ring time are the ones from Ford camp. They do this because Ford doesn’t do ring times. So instead of cheering Fords time, they need to discredit GM, even tho they have no grounds to do so.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

Seems the only ones that discredit GM ring time are the ones from Ford camp. They do this because Ford doesn’t do ring times. So instead of cheering Fords time, they need to discredit GM, even tho they have no grounds to do so.

Not me. You're painting a broad brush.

Ring times are cool. Wish Ford did it too. But even Ferrari doesn't go for Ring records or publish times, so it's a "to each his own" kind of thing.

Side note-- has anyone ever driven on the Ring here? The closest I've come is Gran Turismo 6, ha! But I've driven the long track many times in that game and have a feel for the turns and track layout, etc. There are many, many narrow areas of the track. I watched an actual video from the driver seat of a real race car on the track and the game is surprisingly close. My 1,360 hp Viper is a beast, but that track nearly eats it for lunch.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

If they are at the Ring, why wouldn't Chevy go for the record?

The people that discredit Chevy come across as sour grapes

Originally Posted by 13vertss

Seems the only ones that discredit GM ring time are the ones from Ford camp. They do this because Ford doesn’t do ring times. So instead of cheering Fords time, they need to discredit GM, even tho they have no grounds to do so.

I get what you are saying. Chevy seems to only go for records when they think it will benefit them. C7 Z06 doesn't have an GM Official time, nor does the C7 ZR1 (which I'll admit I did want to see, I wanted GM to best the Viper ACR guess beating it at VIR will have to do lol)

Me personally ring times are cool but I much prefer times from tracks stateside. It's not a big deal to me if someone posts ring times or not. The only ones I know of that really use lap times as marketing tool is GM, Porsche and Nissan. And IIRC the later two have been caught cheating to get better ring times which IMO kind of taints it. Plus I know I will never take my car on a track in Germany lol