[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

What do the cut out notches in throat of body do exactly?

They increase the rate of change of flow area per degree of blade opening. That translates into more airflow for every blade position right after idle. Which is directly proportional to more power for every blade position.

That makes the weight to power ratio lower at part throttle, and the car feels nimbler, more responsive, power delivery is also more linear and predictable. There are many other beneficial side effects a bit more difficult to explain.

- Manifold pressure recovery is faster
- Pumping losses are lower
- Earlier onset of boost on supercharged engines

The key is the improved response starts right off idle, you do not need to wait until you reach 25% throttle or 30%, for the stock TB, to get the car to respond as it should.

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by Z650HP

Just because your the new guy on the block and people want to drink your kool aid doesn't mean I'm going to partake.
Especially when guys are putting you up against a guy that has the knowledge and experience to back it up.

That is presumptuous, you are saying w/o any basis that b/c we are new, we are inexperienced. Also, calling other members kool-aid drinkers as if they were less knowledgeable than what you think you are.

Originally Posted by Z650HP

Rather me answer your questions how about you answer mine? Supply some real fact and or data that yours out performs Tony's. Until then when some guy quotes me saying how much better yours is over Tony's with no real evidence or actual proof I'm going to reference the Placebo effect.

Did you take the time to read and try to understand what we posted? Have you visited our website technical page?

We have done those comparisons (check the data, tons of it, more than most vendors will provide). We are not going to mention any other Vendor by name, we call them PTB-A and PTB-B, etc.

We have let customers do those comparisons, most are SOTP, some were data logs, we have not lost a single one and there are many.

Originally Posted by Z650HP

Not saying your TB is crap or not good. Just not saying its anything. You haven't showed anything but throw around a few fancy words.

I know, you did not say it like that literally, but if it is placebo, then the person that said it was good has vestibular problems, and I'm a rainmaker.
No big deal.

Lastly, we have nothing to prove to you. I'm not sure about your true intentions, but it sounds like you'd never be our customer. Seems like you are looking to confirm your choice of PTB, or maybe something else that we are not interested in participating.

For all other members with a genuine interest in this modification:

You have a 30-day money-back, no-questions-asked warranty. If you can log data please do. If you can't feel the difference or if you have to think or try again to make sure it made a difference, then, say it didn't.

Although you'll see only my name here at the forum, the main contributors to this design are engineers w/ great academic and empirical backgrounds w/ a combined experience of more than 80 years in design, manufacturing, material's science, engineering and failure analysis, reverse engineering, just to mention a few, specifically in the aerospace and automotive sectors. This is not the first butterfly valve we have worked on, neither it is the most critical one. It is perhaps the one we have spent the most time investigating.

[Driski]

Wow, good, healthy debate going on... entertaining reading.
Regarding the TM TB, It was my very first mod.
It made little to no difference (seat of the pants).
It has been, by far, the least bang for the buck mod to date.
Question for Mike@Soler, If I were to install your TB with my existing mods, do you think I would a.) obtain the same level of results you have proclaimed. b.) since the car has been tuned, require another tune.

[Ghost18ZL1]

Just ordered. Reading multiple threads and your response...backed up with hard data, I am impressed. Will write a review once I install and see how it functions.

[crosive]

I'm very interested in this. Is there a way to order it with no markings on the outside, or an engraved plate (just the glorious port work and whatnot)?

I don't want anybody to be the wiser that I have it, unless they know what they are looking for.

[RyanR623]

Originally Posted by Driski

Wow, good, healthy debate going on... entertaining reading.
Regarding the TM TB, It was my very first mod.
It made little to no difference (seat of the pants).
It has been, by far, the least bang for the buck mod to date.
Question for Mike@Soler, If I were to install your TB with my existing mods, do you think I would a.) obtain the same level of results you have proclaimed. b.) since the car has been tuned, require another tune.

So it didn't help throttle response or the laggy feeling of the car from taking off from a stop at low throttle positions? I want something to get rid of that "heavy" feel from take off unless you're at 40% throttle or more. Just feels like the car is working hard.

[DougCBJ]

Originally Posted by Z650HP

Just because your the new guy on the block and people want to drink your kool aid doesn't mean I'm going to partake.
Especially when guys are putting you up against a guy that has the knowledge and experience to back it up.
Rather me answer your questions how about you answer mine?
Supply some real fact and or data that yours out performs Tony's.
Until then when some guy quotes me saying how much better yours is over Tony's with no real evidence or actual proof I'm going to reference the Placebo effect.
Not saying your TB is crap or not good. Just not saying its anything. You haven't showed anything but throw around a few fancy words.

Only took a few days for the first one to show up. I knew after your first post that you'd eventually get there.

[staples87]

Interesting debate to say the least. I'm definitely looking forward to the comparisons.

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by Driski

Wow, good, healthy debate going on... entertaining reading.
Regarding the TM TB, It was my very first mod.
It made little to no difference (seat of the pants).
It has been, by far, the least bang for the buck mod to date.
Question for Mike@Soler, If I were to install your TB with my existing mods, do you think I would a.) obtain the same level of results you have proclaimed. b.) since the car has been tuned, require another tune.

Hello, Driski.

a) Yes, we have had several heavily modified cars and the TB does its job. At part throttle, there are not many mods with the influence a TB can have.

b) Not likely, lots of tuned customer's cars too. In any case, we'll go and try to match your calibration by customizing the TB depending on results, as long as you hang in there with us, we'll get you the optimum flowing TB your calibration will accept. We'll take care of shipping both ways.

Thanks,

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by crosive

I'm very interested in this. Is there a way to order it with no markings on the outside, or an engraved plate (just the glorious port work and whatnot)?

I don't want anybody to be the wiser that I have it, unless they know what they are looking for.

Sure, at checkout there is a field for listing your mods, type there something along the lines of "tag delete", "blade engraving delete".

Thanks,

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by RyanR623

So it didn't help throttle response or the laggy feeling of the car from taking off from a stop at low throttle positions? I want something to get rid of that "heavy" feel from take off unless you're at 40% throttle or more. Just feels like the car is working hard.

We quantified that heavy feel by measuring weight to power ratio at part throttle in a Corvette 7 Stingray A8 (data below). The average in the first third of the throttle is about 300 lb/hp, that is comparable to values measured in trucks and SUV's.

Our design reduces that number to 150-200 lb/hp, this is the type of numbers you would see in comparable cars that feel nimbler.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

They increase the rate of change of flow area per degree of blade opening. That translates into more airflow for every blade position right after idle. Which is directly proportional to more power for every blade position.

That makes the weight to power ratio lower at part throttle, and the car feels nimbler, more responsive, power delivery is also more linear and predictable. There are many other beneficial side effects a bit more difficult to explain.

- Manifold pressure recovery is faster
- Pumping losses are lower
- Earlier onset of boost on supercharged engines

The key is the improved response starts right off idle, you do not need to wait until you reach 25% throttle or 30%, for the stock TB, to get the car to respond as it should.

Holy Sh!t

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

Sure, at checkout there is a field for listing your mods, type there something along the lines of "tag delete", "blade engraving delete".

Thanks,

Yeh..I would want that delete also in case the dealer were to be snooping around looking for a reason to void the warranty. The engraving would be an obvious give away.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

How will this product affect MPG?