[BlaqWhole]

Update:

I started using Manual mode and the paddles on the Shelby. In Manual mode there is a significant difference in the car's power and response. It is almost a completely different car once in M mode. What I don't understand is why Ford couldn't program the car so that you can have the performance enhancement of M mode but while still in full auto. It kinda negates any advantage to be had from owning an auto equipped car. And if I have to manually shift it to get the performance I want then it should just be a manual trans car. It's a very odd system.

Another thing to note is the very noticeable delay when going from a dead stop to accelerating. It is there even in M mode. It is tough because you have to time it perfectly if you want to launch at a specific time. Once it does launch it does take off but at that point you'll be playing catch up depending on who is in the lane next to you. What I wonder is if tuning it can eliminate the programming.

On the road this car does tramline considerably more than the ZL1 and HC. But it is easily corrected. It doesn't take anything away from the enjoyment of driving it. You just have to be more aware when you're driving it.

Again, the major points to this car is in the area of power, handling, braking, and the lightning fast shifting. On just the performance aspects along this car is easily among the best I've owned.

I'll update with more data as I drive it and get to know it more.

[SATINSTEEL1LE]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

I understand your frustration driving the DCT like an auto.
The only way to remediate this is by shifting yourself via the paddles to get the desired immediate up and downshifts. The DCT paddle shift response is faster reacting than the A10 shifts shifted via the paddles.
I only let the DCT shift automatically when warming the car up and occasionally while cruising on the highway; other than that I exclusively shift myself via the paddles.
If I could only drive my GT500 DCT like an auto, I probably wouldn't own this car, but hey that's me.





Regarding the GT500 from a roll - there currently isn't a factory stock car that has faster acceleration (60mph+) in this price range than the GT500.

I feel another aspect of comfort the GT500 has over the ZL1 (coupe) is the more open interior feel and superior visibility.

/

With that much more HP than the ZL1, I'd hope it was faster. But like to like HP wise, I believe the ZL1's superior weight and aero would make it a faster car.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SATINSTEEL1LE

With that much more HP than the ZL1, I'd hope it was faster. But like to like HP wise, I believe the ZL1's superior weight and aero would make it a faster car.

You have to factor in that the Shelby is extremely underrated. They have been dynoing in the high 600s with some of them dipping 700-710. That is roughly 150 (or more) HP to the wheels than the ZL1 which is more than the Z can overcome. The HC is faster up top than a ZL1 is. So imagine more power than a HC but less weight. Or even better, the power of a Redeye but much lighter. This all shows in the 1/4 mile MPH of all three cars. Plus there have been roll on races with all three cars tested by a few mags and the ZL1 has always been slower up top.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Update:

I started using Manual mode and the paddles on the Shelby. In Manual mode there is a significant difference in the car's power and response. It is almost a completely different car once in M mode. What I don't understand is why Ford couldn't program the car so that you can have the performance enhancement of M mode but while still in full auto. It kinda negates any advantage to be had from owning an auto equipped car. And if I have to manually shift it to get the performance I want then it should just be a manual trans car. It's a very odd system.

Another thing to note is the very noticeable delay when going from a dead stop to accelerating. It is there even in M mode. It is tough because you have to time it perfectly if you want to launch at a specific time. Once it does launch it does take off but at that point you'll be playing catch up depending on who is in the lane next to you. What I wonder is if tuning it can eliminate the programming.

Again, the major points to this car is in the area of power, handling, braking, and the lightning fast shifting. On just the performance aspects along this car is easily among the best I've owned.

I'll update with more data as I drive it and get to know it more.

Yup what Ive been talking about! I almost exclusively shift manually via the paddles. I usually drive in sport mode with traction control off and stability control on for a more constant power delivery.
This car bogs from a dig on the street. Ive see people run a 1.7 60ft on factory tires using traction control on a prepped track.
Ive had the best results on the street from a dig using traction control set at 2.2k rpm. It still bogs some but not terrible and pulls hard once it gets going. This car is much more of a roll race car imo, as digs are on the street are tricky.
I agree this car should prob should have come in manual or as an option. Regardless, still a ton of fun!

Originally Posted by SATINSTEEL1LE

With that much more HP than the ZL1, I'd hope it was faster. But like to like HP wise, I believe the ZL1's superior weight and aero would make it a faster car.

GT500 is clearly a good bit faster than the ZL1, Hellcat and Redeye; especially 60+ on the highway. The GT500 top-end pull is relentless, very impressive for a factory stock car with warranty in this price range. The GT500 is a solid second faster than the ZL1 a10 60-130 in the same conditions with the gap widening further after 130...
The ZL1 is about 250-300 lbs lighter than the non CFPP GT500. Aero is pretty close comparing non1LE and non CFPP. Nothing id say "superior".
If the GT500 had the same power as the ZL1 it would be slower no doubt. I the ZL1 auto is quicker from a dig on the street 0-60 due to the GT500 bogging the launch mainly.

GT500 vs bolt-on tuned hellcat


GT500 vs Redeye

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

Yup what Ive been talking about! I almost exclusively shift manually via the paddles. I usually drive in sport mode with traction control off and stability control on for a more constant power delivery.
This car bogs from a dig on the street. Ive see people run a 1.7 60ft on factory tires using traction control on a prepped track.
Ive had the best results on the street from a dig using traction control set at 2.2k rpm. It still bogs some but not terrible and pulls hard once it gets going. This car is much more of a roll race car imo, as digs are on the street are tricky.
I agree this car should prob should have come in manual or as an option. Regardless, still a ton of fun!



GT500 is clearly a good bit faster than the ZL1, Hellcat and Redeye; especially 60+ on the highway. The GT500 top-end pull is relentless, very impressive for a factory stock car with warranty in this price range. The GT500 is a solid second faster than the ZL1 a10 60-130 in the same conditions with the gap widening further after 130...
The ZL1 is about 250-300 lbs lighter than the non CFPP GT500. Aero is pretty close comparing non1LE and non CFPP. Nothing id say "superior".
If the GT500 had the same power as the ZL1 it would be slower no doubt. I the ZL1 auto is quicker from a dig on the street 0-60 due to the GT500 bogging the launch mainly.

GT500 vs bolt-on tuned hellcat


GT500 vs Redeye

I find it difficult to take any of the YTers seriously these days. You honestly can't trust people who are looking for views. Who really knows when they're trolling for likes/views, outright lying, staging stuff, etc. You have one of them saying and doing this and then if you look enough times you'll find another one saying and doing the exact opposite. So there really isn't any way to know if they're being honest about anything.

Under no circumstances should a GT500 out run or even keep up with a well modded auto trans Hellcat. So that seems off. I also wouldn't say it is a good bit faster than the RE. They should be pretty much even. The Shelby is for sure faster up top than the ZL1 and should be slightly faster than a standard HC.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I find it difficult to take any of the YTers seriously these days. You honestly can't trust people who are looking for views. Who really knows when they're trolling for likes/views, outright lying, staging stuff, etc. You have one of them saying and doing this and then if you look enough times you'll find another one saying and doing the exact opposite. So there really isn't any way to know if they're being honest about anything.

Under no circumstances should a GT500 out run or even keep up with a well modded auto trans Hellcat. So that seems off. I also wouldn't say it is a good bit faster than the RE. They should be pretty much even. The Shelby is for sure faster up top than the ZL1 and should be slightly faster than a standard HC.

I hear you on trusting youtubers!
However, there are so many consistent examples on many different channels (clean runs too... of the stock GT500's smoking stock Redeyes, Hellcats and other cars you'd think it wouldn't.
CanIBeFrank and especially Auto Glory post clean races just about every night and most seem pretty legit to me. They also post plenty of videos with GT500's losing as well. That was a mildly modded hellcat. There are plenty other modded Hellcats on the same channel absolutely gapping GT500's.

...and believe me or not, Ive tested all of my car's 60-130 (valid flat surface runs) with my Dragy (which is proven extremely accurate) in similar weather/DA, location and the best I could muster with my stock narrow-body redeye was a 7.9 but usually low 8's and GT500 best 7.1 (w/ 120 lbs wife passenger) and some spin but usually low to mid 7 sec. My Hellcat (challenger) was usually 8.5-9 60-130 and the ZL1 in the 9 sec range; though, like I said before I think there was something up with my ZL1, as it wasn't running optimally...
The GT500 shines even more 100-150

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

I hear you on trusting youtubers!
However, there are so many consistent examples on many different channels (clean runs too... of the stock GT500's smoking stock Redeyes, Hellcats and other cars you'd think it wouldn't.
CanIBeFrank and especially Auto Glory post clean races just about every night and most seem pretty legit to me. They also post plenty of videos with GT500's losing as well. That was a mildly modded hellcat. There are plenty other modded Hellcats on the same channel absolutely gapping GT500's.

...and believe me or not, Ive tested all of my car's 60-130 (valid flat surface runs) with my Dragy (which is proven extremely accurate) in similar weather/DA, location and the best I could muster with my stock narrow-body redeye was a 7.9 but usually low 8's and GT500 best 7.1 (w/ 120 lbs wife passenger) and some spin but usually low to mid 7 sec. My Hellcat (challenger) was usually 8.5-9 60-130 and the ZL1 in the 9 sec range; though, like I said before I think there was something up with my ZL1, as it wasn't running optimally...
The GT500 shines even more 100-150

We're gonna have to just chalk this up as a disagree on this one. I don't see any possible way that a GT500 should be "smoking" a RE or a modded HC. No way at all. A stock ZL1 sure. A stock standard HC yea. But not a pullied and tuned HC or a RE. Even if it could possibly beat those cars it should be very close. I'll give the Shelby it's props. It is a very fast roll race car. But so is the HC and even more so the RE.

One of the magazines tested all three side by side by side in a quarter mile race and a roll on. In the roll race portion the RE was fastest. So of course results will always vary. But if the GT500 is capable of smoking a RE then I don't see any circumstance where the RE would be able to win.

Now perhaps it depends on the gearing and where the race starts from. They have vastly different drivetrains. So perhaps in the races where the GT500 "smoked" the RE, it could have been as simple as they launched from a speed where the GT500 has more of an advantage due to gearing. Or vice versa with the RE in the races where it won. Who knows. Or maybe the RE was heat soaked. Or any other explanation. But there would have to be a logical explanation to show how the GT500 can do something that the numbers just do not support.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

We're gonna have to just chalk this up as a disagree on this one. I don't see any possible way that a GT500 should be "smoking" a RE or a modded HC. No way at all. A stock ZL1 sure. A stock standard HC yea. But not a pullied and tuned HC or a RE. Even if it could possibly beat those cars it should be very close. I'll give the Shelby it's props. It is a very fast roll race car. But so is the HC and even more so the RE.

One of the magazines tested all three side by side by side in a quarter mile race and a roll on. In the roll race portion the RE was fastest. So of course results will always vary. But if the GT500 is capable of smoking a RE then I don't see any circumstance where the RE would be able to win.

Now perhaps it depends on the gearing and where the race starts from. They have vastly different drivetrains. So perhaps in the races where the GT500 "smoked" the RE, it could have been as simple as they launched from a speed where the GT500 has more of an advantage due to gearing. Or vice versa with the RE in the races where it won. Who knows. Or maybe the RE was heat soaked. Or any other explanation. But there would have to be a logical explanation to show how the GT500 can do something that the numbers just do not support.

I think we agree more than you think. To be clear, I dont think the GT500 smokes modded Hellcats or redeyes. My definition of smoked may be different than yours... That race I posted against the mildly modded hellcat was close, with nobody really smoking anyone. Most modded hellcats do win. Stock vs stock it isn't close though.
There are a lot of factors when it comes to roll racing. Starting in the right gear/rpm, traction, reaction, gearing, heat soak etc
The GT500 does pull away from redeyes (not smoke) in the vast majority of videos Ive seen and like I said my dragy testing has the GT500 several 10ths faster consistently. I estimate a Redeye needs around 850 crank hp to beat a stock gt500 from a roll. The Redeye on a tire and prepped track has a huge advantage in the 60 ft but highway roll it's not quite as fast as you'd expect. I was a little disappointed going from a Hellcat to the Redeye TBH. They do sound amazing though.
Again my 60-130 results are a tell all from my personal experience. Redeye upper 7 sec vs GT500 low 7 sec in same conditions is a clear difference.


At the end of the day all of these cars are fast and fun with a ton of potential and neither dramatically better than the other overall! Pick the one you prefer for your reasons and enjoy. I'd love to own all 3 like you! There are even days I miss the comfort, torque and sound of the Hellcat.

Here is more of a clean run between the two where both can drive and no excuses:



For fun here is a Hellcat done right vs a modded GT500

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I think the GT500 has a slightly better power to weight ratio than the Challenger Redeye. ~4520 lbs and ~800 hp vs. ~4170 lbs and ~775 hp (assuming 760 hp is slightly underrated). ~5.65 vs ~5.38. Also, the GT500 has a slightly smaller frontal area, which should help reduce overall drag at high speeds assuming similar Cd values.

For a ZL1 to have the same power to weight as a Challenger Redeye it only needs 695 hp (3,925 lbs A10 weight). Being 600 lbs lighter makes a big difference. However, the higher hp car will win at higher speeds since it has more available hp to cut through the wind. So for a ZL1 to keep up with a Redeye above 100 mph, it probably needs 710-715 hp, and more as speeds climb and drag becomes the dominant force over weight.

I also think the Redeye and GT500 have better intercooling capacity than the LT4, as I suspect the ZL1 starts to pull timing before those cars during a WOT run due to higher charge air temperatures once the intercoolers can no longer keep up. This affects the really long pulls where the ZL1 may run out of steam at high speeds, so to speak, compared to the other two.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I think the GT500 has a slightly better power to weight ratio than the Challenger Redeye. ~4520 lbs and ~800 hp vs. ~4170 lbs and ~775 hp (assuming 760 hp is slightly underrated). ~5.65 vs ~5.38. Also, the GT500 has a slightly smaller frontal area, which should help reduce overall drag at high speeds assuming similar Cd values.

For a ZL1 to have the same power to weight as a Challenger Redeye it only needs 695 hp (3,925 lbs A10 weight). Being 600 lbs lighter makes a big difference. However, the higher hp car will win at higher speeds since it has more available hp to cut through the wind. So for a ZL1 to keep up with a Redeye above 100 mph, it probably needs 710-715 hp, and more as speeds climb and drag becomes the dominant force over weight.

I also think the Redeye and GT500 have better intercooling capacity than the LT4, as I suspect the ZL1 starts to pull timing before those cars during a WOT run due to higher charge air temperatures once the intercoolers can no longer keep up. This affects the really long pulls where the ZL1 may run out of steam at high speeds, so to speak, compared to the other two.

Hey, I used to own similar cars as you, I had an 07 speed 3 and 87 iroc z m5

I agree with your above post for the most part. I’m not sure if the gt500 engine is underrated or just less drivetrain loss due to the DCT being more efficient; maybe both

[MakCamaro]

What is the GT500 lap time at the Nurburging and why is it so hard to find this kind of information online two years after the car has been launched? The ZL1 completed the lap in 7.29 (with an unofficial 7.27 recorded on the same day). The ZLE managed an even more impressive 7.16. These lap times are faster than many, much more expensive, European supercars. I read somewhere (though unofficial) that the GT500 completed the lap in 8 min and 4 seconds...

It would take more than YouTube videos posted by cocky Mustang owners (and I am certainly not referring to anyone in this thread) for me to be convinced that the GT500 is the "beast" that some claim it is.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by MakCamaro

What is the GT500 lap time at the Nürburgring and why is it so hard to find this kind of information online two years after the car has been launched? The ZL1 completed the lap in 7.29 (with an unofficial 7.27 recorded on the same day). The ZLE managed an even more impressive 7.16. These lap times are faster than many, much more expensive, European supercars. I read somewhere (though unofficial) that the GT500 completed the lap in 8 min and 4 seconds...

It would take more than YouTube videos posted by cocky Mustang owners (and I am certainly not referring to anyone in this thread) for me to be convinced that the GT500 is the "beast" that some claim to be.

Do you regularly track your car?
If not, why cares about these numbers on paper? I highly doubt the GT500 is that much slower.
Ive owned and experienced both and no pro driver. I dont come close to pushing these cars to their limits, especially on the street. The ZL1 suspension felt more "well sorted" but I cant really perceive a real difference between these cars when pushed hard in the turns on the street.
Regardless, the GT500 is PLENTY capable for the average enthusiast and pretty much track ready out of the box like the ZL1, definitely a beast in its own right.
I spend my hard earned money on which car overall feels better and is more fun on the street to me.

[MakCamaro]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

I spend my hard earned money on which car overall feels better and is more fun on the street to me.

I did the same too. No I don't track my car regularly, but for me the numbers tell the truth and the Nurburgring is the place where a car is put to the test in terms of performance - at least in Europe. Also, I would not spend almost $150,000 (yes this is how deep you have to get into your pockets if you ever wanted to buy a GT500 in Europe) for a car that is slower than the ZL1 from a stop and marginally faster on a roll.

But I still try to find out why Ford didn't record/report official numbers of the GT500 at the Nurburgring.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by MakCamaro

But I still try to find out why Ford didn't record/report official numbers of the GT500 at the Nurburgring.

Because Ford doesn't post ring times. Didn't with the GT, GT350, 350R, 500, previous GT, previous 500 etc etc