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Old 07-05-2019, 08:39 PM   #15
toohighpsi
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SienarSystems View Post
@toohighpsi - when you say no mods “but”... What exactly did you add to the LT4 to get to 700hp? 2650, 103mm TB, big gulp, and a tune? Exhaust? Fuel? Cam?
TVS 2650, 103mm Throttle Body, GM performance cold air intake, and tune.
All else on the car is stock.
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:17 PM   #16
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Thanks guys, very impressive results.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:32 AM   #17
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Being that the Magnuson uses 2 coolers. Do we know if they are thicker and or as wide combined as the single Edelbrock?
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:43 AM   #18
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I'm really not sure about that. I've not seen the Ebrock intercooler brick. Did you see my pics on my 2650 post.
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Old 07-08-2019, 07:42 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by laynlo15 View Post
I'm really not sure about that. I've not seen the Ebrock intercooler brick. Did you see my pics on my 2650 post.
Yes, that is what got me wondering if the Magnuson was thicker or combined as large or larger.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toohighpsi View Post
The biggest unseen difference will be the patent pending Magnuson Stage 2 housing in the Magnum DI, it's capable of at least 150HP more at the top end compared to competitors TVS2650 products.
How can that be achieved if you are limited to only using direct injection on the Magnum DI? Other kits, like the Edelbrock, can use port injection after they max out aftermarket DI. Seems like it’s just the opposite as the other designs allow better fueling options which is a bigger hurdle. Does the stage 2 address the fuel issue?
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:52 AM   #21
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This isn't a great post because these set-ups are new enough and people aren't sharing quite a whole lot yet... But...

The top image is an E-Force 2650. If you get your bearings from the picture you get an idea of how big the intercooler is. It looks to pretty much stretch from about from top of the cylinder head to top of cylinder head (or pretty much a similar width of the distance from the outsides of the LT4 1740s intercooler bricks). It's pretty much the width of the supercharger case itself.

The Maggie Magnum' intercoolers appear to be, perhaps, a little narrower (in total combined width) than the E-Force. Clearly, there are separate bricks, though. There are a couple examples of the 1740 vs 2300 and 2300 vs 2650.

What is not easily seen is the thickness of the E-Force. A quick search didn't yield much, but I didn't have a lot of time.

In the video (attached) you can see the comparative thickness of the Maggie to the OEM LT4. It's pretty significant.

What, I think, differs the most is the inlet design and intercoolers. Because the rotors are the same between the units, the blower cases showcase the different philosophies between the two designs. The E-Force doesn't offer a lot of under-lid-room. The air appears to have to "smash" around in order to make the 180-degree turn from the discharge port to the intake runners for the heads. The Maggie appears to push the air from the discharge port outboard and over to the sides for the intercoolers to transfer the air into the intake runners. It looks like the engineering theories for each suggest one favored hood clearance over the other which is why one is wider than the other. It also looks like Maggie engineered the inlet to not need porting - I could be wrong there, too.

Considering the power difference both made on mostly stock cars it seems there might be a power advantage. I don't recall if either reported dyno was SAE or not. Both were different cars (the numbers for the Maggie I've seen are for a C7 while the E-Force was a ZL1), but you can compare the gains from "stock" if nothing else. That's a tough one to call without, yet, a direct 6th Gen 2650-test.

I saw a post about port injection options on one of these, too. I see the possible advantage there, but I wonder if a Lingenfelter or Katech upgraded DI-kit would make-up the difference. I've seen they both have about the headroom these 2650s say they have (what, about like 1100-RWHP?). These DI-kits seem to be good to about 1500 FWHP, so maybe the port injection-option argument is moot as after adding more injectors and adding a standalone computer will probably get similar cost, but more complexity. I wouldn't claim to know.

Isn't it cool there are so many options for us?


Below are just a couple links to where I got some of the information above:


https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...=544558&page=3
Attached Images
       
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramairroughneck View Post
How can that be achieved if you are limited to only using direct injection on the Magnum DI? Other kits, like the Edelbrock, can use port injection after they max out aftermarket DI. Seems like it’s just the opposite as the other designs allow better fueling options which is a bigger hurdle. Does the stage 2 address the fuel issue?
Katech and Lingenfelter have been developing DI pumps and injectors for a little bit now. Katech has an additional pump (it seems similar to what you'd find for diesel upgrade pumps) for their design and Lingenfelter has a new DI pump that replaces the OEM LT4 high pressure pump (in the lifter valley). It seems if you add/replace these, you can keep your DI without adding a completely new fuel control system for the port injectors. I could be wrong...

https://store.katechengines.com/kate...stem-p631.aspx

https://www.lingenfelter.com/product/L710156914.html
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:48 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
This isn't a great post because these set-ups are new enough and people aren't sharing quite a whole lot yet... But...

The top image is an E-Force 2650. If you get your bearings from the picture you get an idea of how big the intercooler is. It looks to pretty much stretch from about from top of the cylinder head to top of cylinder head (or pretty much a similar width of the distance from the outsides of the LT4 1740s intercooler bricks). It's pretty much the width of the supercharger case itself.

The Maggie Magnum' intercoolers appear to be, perhaps, a little narrower (in total combined width) than the E-Force. Clearly, there are separate bricks, though. There are a couple examples of the 1740 vs 2300 and 2300 vs 2650.

What is not easily seen is the thickness of the E-Force. A quick search didn't yield much, but I didn't have a lot of time.

In the video (attached) you can see the comparative thickness of the Maggie to the OEM LT4. It's pretty significant.

What, I think, differs the most is the inlet design and intercoolers. Because the rotors are the same between the units, the blower cases showcase the different philosophies between the two designs. The E-Force doesn't offer a lot of under-lid-room. The air appears to have to "smash" around in order to make the 180-degree turn from the discharge port to the intake runners for the heads. The Maggie appears to push the air from the discharge port outboard and over to the sides for the intercoolers to transfer the air into the intake runners. It looks like the engineering theories for each suggest one favored hood clearance over the other which is why one is wider than the other. It also looks like Maggie engineered the inlet to not need porting - I could be wrong there, too.

Considering the power difference both made on mostly stock cars it seems there might be a power advantage. I don't recall if either reported dyno was SAE or not. Both were different cars (the numbers for the Maggie I've seen are for a C7 while the E-Force was a ZL1), but you can compare the gains from "stock" if nothing else. That's a tough one to call without, yet, a direct 6th Gen 2650-test.

I saw a post about port injection options on one of these, too. I see the possible advantage there, but I wonder if a Lingenfelter or Katech upgraded DI-kit would make-up the difference. I've seen they both have about the headroom these 2650s say they have (what, about like 1100-RWHP?). These DI-kits seem to be good to about 1500 FWHP, so maybe the port injection-option argument is moot as after adding more injectors and adding a standalone computer will probably get similar cost, but more complexity. I wouldn't claim to know.

Isn't it cool there are so many options for us?


Below are just a couple links to where I got some of the information above:


https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...=544558&page=3
Thanks for the post!! Very informative! Only thing to see now is how thick is the Edelbrock cooler. The Magnuson ones are nice. Even a lot larger than the 2300 model.
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Sold 2012 2LT RS 12.3@112 old setup

Sold 1967 Camaro Pro Street. Ran 10's mild BB on NOS.

2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 ** Born 3/17/17**Delivered 4/08/17
2020 Build: Mag2650, BTR Stage2, NW103, BG, 14% lower, 90mm upper, ARH 2" Long system w/no cats, SW Legend mufflers. **807hp/762tq on 93 gas** and **848hp/792tq on e47**

Sold 2018 (Go Mango) Dodge Charger Daytona 392 Daily Driver

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Old 07-11-2019, 01:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
Katech and Lingenfelter have been developing DI pumps and injectors for a little bit now. Katech has an additional pump (it seems similar to what you'd find for diesel upgrade pumps) for their design and Lingenfelter has a new DI pump that replaces the OEM LT4 high pressure pump (in the lifter valley). It seems if you add/replace these, you can keep your DI without adding a completely new fuel control system for the port injectors. I could be wrong...

https://store.katechengines.com/kate...stem-p631.aspx

https://www.lingenfelter.com/product/L710156914.html
Yep both systems are capable of maxing that out.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:45 PM   #25
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I don’t know the exact dimensions but here’s a few pictures I found online of the Edelbrock 2650 intercooler.
Attached Images
  
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramairroughneck View Post
I don’t know the exact dimensions but here’s a few pictures I found online of the Edelbrock 2650 intercooler.
cool, now just need someone to put up a bill to the Magnuson ones for comparison
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Sold 2012 2LT RS 12.3@112 old setup

Sold 1967 Camaro Pro Street. Ran 10's mild BB on NOS.

2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 ** Born 3/17/17**Delivered 4/08/17
2020 Build: Mag2650, BTR Stage2, NW103, BG, 14% lower, 90mm upper, ARH 2" Long system w/no cats, SW Legend mufflers. **807hp/762tq on 93 gas** and **848hp/792tq on e47**

Sold 2018 (Go Mango) Dodge Charger Daytona 392 Daily Driver

Daily Driver 2021 BMW M340i Xdrive

Last edited by IneedAZ; 07-11-2019 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramairroughneck View Post
I don’t know the exact dimensions but here’s a few pictures I found online of the Edelbrock 2650 intercooler.
Damn, that looks massive!
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:42 PM   #28
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I looking forward to some real world air temp comparisons between the 2 blowers. The eforce design has the air passing through the intercooler brick twice in different areas. I wonder how much of a difference that makes.
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