1st track impressions from former C6Z owner

philpacs · 10-06-2018, 04:30 PM

I finally got to PBIR to track my new ZL1 A10 so I thought I'd give some initial impressions and get your feedback. I am a former C6Z H/C/I owner which also had track suspension, brakes and R888's and about 550whp. I am very familiar with PBIR tracking the vette there dozens of times and overall have been a solo level driver for more than 15 years.

I haven't driven a stock street car on the track in a very long and my ZL1 is 100% stock, no aftermarket parts. So my assessment is from that perspective.

Power= Good power, more low end torque, but the last 10% throttle travel seems to give you like 30-40% more power so I had to learn to modulate that. the ZO6 was the opposite with much less below 3.5K. I was about 10 mph less down the back straight in the ZL1, probably due to less exit speed tire grip and the vette being much lighter. The cars feel similar but the vette had more violent pull and ZL1 was smoother. I feel the vette would pull on the ZL1 though from a roll. My oil temps never went above 280ish and no warnings of anything else.

Transmission= So I was very curious and read all the praise on the A10. My opinion is mixed. The up-shifts are awesome and they didn't seem to upset the car at any-point but if it was my choice I would've slightly changed some shifts. I kept in auto Sport 2 track mode till I get more comfortable. I assumed the downshifts were going to be imperceptible feeling and not throw off the balance but i absolutely felt each one. The rev-matching wasn't as smooth as I assumed. I'm not sure if my car has a problem or they just aren't butter smooth with no weight transfer. That being said it didn't ruin the fun. I held the brakes a slightly more waiting for the shift to transfer weight forward to time my turn in for more front grip. Most corners it didn't seem to matter. I would like you road course guys opinions here. Also when I start to cool down it's hard to get the algorithm to change out of holding gears to redline. I found myself using the paddles.

Handling= The ZL1 was overall very neutral. Great job GM. I definitely felt the cars weight over the ZO6 and it leaned a lot more as expected but definitely a good mix of comfort, track and street. I wish track mode was stiffer of course but you can't have everything. I experienced both understeer and oversteer. It pushed, I lifted, waited for grip and tracked out nicely out of tighter corners and the faster stuff was progressive with slight understeer going in and almost no oversteer on the way out. The ZL1 will oversteer in sport 2 with an aggressive turn in which is easily caught by the throttle and or opposite lock. Good fun but you have to ready to catch it quickly. My ZO6 was harder to get loose. Being a street stock car smoothness is highly rewarded.

Braking= The brakes worked great being stock. The first session I was in sport 1. After pushing the car I felt the brake travel soften but the bite didn't change much. Sport 2 gave less softening in the later session. I assume the nannies were engaging the brakes to much. Don't expect track pad brake force or stopping but very good for stock pads and they never hit the floor and remained consistent with good modulation. I'm curious what track pads would be like and would the extra weight transfer upset the balance etc.

Tires= The first session I forgot to air down but according the display I had them 37-39lbs hot so I thought I was good. I learned you can't trust the display, checking with a gauge they were way off. The second session I took 4 to 5bls out and measured after and they were 39-41 lbs hot. They felt better after I dropped the pressure. The first session they seemed to feel more greasy and the following session after I aired down they were more consistent and less scrubby. I did expect more overall grip but again I'm used to the hooked up ZO6 on R888's. They seemed to take the abuse well and more consistent than my memory of street tires which only took a few laps before major slippage.

Overall= This surprised me. My best laps in the ZO6 was 1:28's with maybe hero 1:27's in the winter months. The ZL1 did 1:31's consistently. I used the PDR but it didn't overlay the info so I watched and timed laps myself. I need to learn the PDR. For a stock car to be only a few seconds off the track modded ZO6 in a much more familiar car I thought was fantastic. I felt I got the ZL1 up to limits pretty well but with practice I know there is a 1 or 2 seconds left in there. Also I was 10mph slower down the back straight so to me it means the handling is better than I think in the ZL1. The ELSD, mag ride, PTM and torque probably make it less work to be consistent and help more than I imagine. Then no major pad or tire changes, no hot center console, just cruise home in cooled seats rocking to sat radio. OTW home it seemed like it didn't want to go less than 80mph weird huh?

Stanimal · 10-06-2018, 05:05 PM

Great review. I'm coming from a C7 Z51. I'm anxiously awaiting a ZL1 1LE. I'm also in SoFla so I hope I'll see you soon at the track. Which club do you track with?

philpacs · 10-06-2018, 05:37 PM

Sent you a PM

devnull · 10-06-2018, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanimal

Great review. I'm coming from a C7 Z51. I'm anxiously awaiting a ZL1 1LE. I'm also in SoFla so I hope I'll see you soon at the track. Which club do you track with?

I did the same (went from Z51 to ZLE). Prepare to smile, A LOT!

Badgerbimmer · 10-07-2018, 11:20 AM

the tires like lower hot pressure 35ish. Also if you haven't had an alignment done it is sure to be way off. Put in as much negative camber as you can front and rear, with at least zero toe.

Stealth7 · 10-07-2018, 11:28 AM

I believe John Hennessey had a head to head of a C7Z and a new ZL1 A10 on his runway racetrack and they were about dead even In a straight line so power and speed were pretty close. The Nurburgring times for the ZL1 and 1LE were also pretty stout

Stanimal · 10-07-2018, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devnull

I did the same (went from Z51 to ZLE). Prepare to smile, A LOT!

Badmojo · 10-07-2018, 07:27 PM

Track alignment (or a little more) is a big improvement. I'm running -2.4 front, -1.7 rear camber and it helps with grip and tire wear. Street wear hasn't been an issue with the ratio of track days to street miles for me.

I would also recommend Castrol SRF brake fluid. The factory fluid deteriorates after a couple track sessions.

Keep your tire pressure lower and target a max of 37 psig at the end of the session. The grip starts to go bye-bye at 38 psig and really goes beyond that.

Revalot · 10-08-2018, 09:15 AM

It's great to have a honest review from a C6 Z06 owner, and comments from C7 Z06 also, This car is a work of art, and the ZL1 1LE is a masterpiece ! In your report of the ZL1, you said for the track the ride could be a little more stiff, you just described the only short coming it had, and the ZL1 1LE is the answer. I hope someone lets you drive the 1LE version, sounds like it would put you over the top for sure ! Still has heated and cool seats ! LOL
I'm going to surprise you guys before long ! I might just say look what showed up in my yard !

philpacs · 10-08-2018, 10:12 AM

I will try to adjust the tire pressure lower next time. I did use SRF but didn't do the alignment since this is my daily driver and didn't' want to pay to multiple alignments etc. If I do a full weekend event I may spring for the alignments. Since it was my first time on track in this car I just wanted to learn the handling, power and balance so I can learn to be smooth before riding the limit. I was surprised how easily it was to get close to limits. I would love the 1LE but since this is my daily I heard the ride is a bit to rough and I'm getting old to row gears in my daily commute. The 1LE would also necessitate a second set of wheels/tires for daily use. Maybe in the future if I can get a second fun/track car.

I would be interested if any other A10 tracking guys out there have had similar experiences with the tranny, tire pressure displays or general behavior? Great car I agree.

Cooter42 · 10-08-2018, 04:55 PM

Cool comparison by philpacs! Similarly, I had a C6Z and now running a ZL1 1LE. I don't have a comparative lap time, but I'm substantially quicker in the 1LE than the Z06. While I loved the LS7, I'm addicted to the instant response of the blown motor - this car leaps forward. I do wonder how a C6Z would run on the Goodyear F1 3R's. Think that car is probably the best performance/dollar value on the market...

Badmojo · 10-08-2018, 05:27 PM

Tip 1: Move the shift lever into manual and then back to drive to immediately end performance shift mode for the cool down laps.

Tip 2: On one turn at Carolina Motorsport Park, the downshift happened a few times right when I got into the throttle. This upset the balance of the car. Solution is to just carry a little more speed and avoid the downshift at the apex.

Tip 3: Unless you are really putting on the street miles, then the track alignment shouldn't kill the tires. I got 8 track days and 5000 miles out of my front tires. The wear pattern was relatively square.

Tip 4: Use Track-Competition-PTM Race after you get comfortable with the car.

Tip 5: Remove the water deflector from under the hood for track days.

Tip 6: Get that PDR going. You need a FAT32 format SD card. Set your performance overlay to "track". Set the finish line (only once, it is permanent). Get the free Cosworth Toolbox to analyze your laps.

Bonus Tip: Subscribe to my Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9j..._wOsWvJsfvL7QQ

Cosworth Toolbox Download:
http://download.cosworth.com/downloa...r/GM/Index.htm

FAT32 Card:
https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Canv...=SD+card+fat32

RedHot18 · 10-09-2018, 10:51 AM

I went to the A10 from a Z51 2016 Vette. I track it up over at Sebring with the Chin boys.
You will get used to the down shifts after a few outings. Everything already stated is correct, don't let your tire pressures get over 35 while tracking as they start to lose grip quickly. This car is really fun at bigger tracks than PBIR, 140 plus on back straight Sebring and over 160 approaching tri oval Daytona. Stock brakes are really good and rotors are super durable. I'm on forth or fifth set of pads on current rotors. I also live in S FLA. Chin has a Sebring event almost every month, I will probably do Chin 12/8 or Henry Gilbert PDG Florida on the 22nd there is also Daytona in Dec with HOD and again in Jan with PCA.

philpacs · 10-09-2018, 12:15 PM

Thanks for your support and advise. I will definitely try those things mentioned. I'll probably do the alignment before the next event and keep on eye on the wear. I drive about 60 + miles a day. I might do Winterfest at Sebring, if not I'll look into other club events for sebring. Are you still using stock pads badmojo/redhot18?

10-06-2018, 04:30 PM	#1
philpacs Drives: Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Florida Posts: 76	1st track impressions from former C6Z owner I finally got to PBIR to track my new ZL1 A10 so I thought I'd give some initial impressions and get your feedback. I am a former C6Z H/C/I owner which also had track suspension, brakes and R888's and about 550whp. I am very familiar with PBIR tracking the vette there dozens of times and overall have been a solo level driver for more than 15 years. I haven't driven a stock street car on the track in a very long and my ZL1 is 100% stock, no aftermarket parts. So my assessment is from that perspective. Power= Good power, more low end torque, but the last 10% throttle travel seems to give you like 30-40% more power so I had to learn to modulate that. the ZO6 was the opposite with much less below 3.5K. I was about 10 mph less down the back straight in the ZL1, probably due to less exit speed tire grip and the vette being much lighter. The cars feel similar but the vette had more violent pull and ZL1 was smoother. I feel the vette would pull on the ZL1 though from a roll. My oil temps never went above 280ish and no warnings of anything else. Transmission= So I was very curious and read all the praise on the A10. My opinion is mixed. The up-shifts are awesome and they didn't seem to upset the car at any-point but if it was my choice I would've slightly changed some shifts. I kept in auto Sport 2 track mode till I get more comfortable. I assumed the downshifts were going to be imperceptible feeling and not throw off the balance but i absolutely felt each one. The rev-matching wasn't as smooth as I assumed. I'm not sure if my car has a problem or they just aren't butter smooth with no weight transfer. That being said it didn't ruin the fun. I held the brakes a slightly more waiting for the shift to transfer weight forward to time my turn in for more front grip. Most corners it didn't seem to matter. I would like you road course guys opinions here. Also when I start to cool down it's hard to get the algorithm to change out of holding gears to redline. I found myself using the paddles. Handling= The ZL1 was overall very neutral. Great job GM. I definitely felt the cars weight over the ZO6 and it leaned a lot more as expected but definitely a good mix of comfort, track and street. I wish track mode was stiffer of course but you can't have everything. I experienced both understeer and oversteer. It pushed, I lifted, waited for grip and tracked out nicely out of tighter corners and the faster stuff was progressive with slight understeer going in and almost no oversteer on the way out. The ZL1 will oversteer in sport 2 with an aggressive turn in which is easily caught by the throttle and or opposite lock. Good fun but you have to ready to catch it quickly. My ZO6 was harder to get loose. Being a street stock car smoothness is highly rewarded. Braking= The brakes worked great being stock. The first session I was in sport 1. After pushing the car I felt the brake travel soften but the bite didn't change much. Sport 2 gave less softening in the later session. I assume the nannies were engaging the brakes to much. Don't expect track pad brake force or stopping but very good for stock pads and they never hit the floor and remained consistent with good modulation. I'm curious what track pads would be like and would the extra weight transfer upset the balance etc. Tires= The first session I forgot to air down but according the display I had them 37-39lbs hot so I thought I was good. I learned you can't trust the display, checking with a gauge they were way off. The second session I took 4 to 5bls out and measured after and they were 39-41 lbs hot. They felt better after I dropped the pressure. The first session they seemed to feel more greasy and the following session after I aired down they were more consistent and less scrubby. I did expect more overall grip but again I'm used to the hooked up ZO6 on R888's. They seemed to take the abuse well and more consistent than my memory of street tires which only took a few laps before major slippage. Overall= This surprised me. My best laps in the ZO6 was 1:28's with maybe hero 1:27's in the winter months. The ZL1 did 1:31's consistently. I used the PDR but it didn't overlay the info so I watched and timed laps myself. I need to learn the PDR. For a stock car to be only a few seconds off the track modded ZO6 in a much more familiar car I thought was fantastic. I felt I got the ZL1 up to limits pretty well but with practice I know there is a 1 or 2 seconds left in there. Also I was 10mph slower down the back straight so to me it means the handling is better than I think in the ZL1. The ELSD, mag ride, PTM and torque probably make it less work to be consistent and help more than I imagine. Then no major pad or tire changes, no hot center console, just cruise home in cooled seats rocking to sat radio. OTW home it seemed like it didn't want to go less than 80mph weird huh?

10-07-2018, 11:20 AM	#5
Badgerbimmer Drives: ZL1 A10 Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 306	the tires like lower hot pressure 35ish. Also if you haven't had an alignment done it is sure to be way off. Put in as much negative camber as you can front and rear, with at least zero toe. __________________ My rides: 2017 Camaro ZL1 A10 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel 2012 Audi S4 1992 Porsche America Roadster 1990 BMW 325Ic

10-07-2018, 11:28 AM	#6
Stealth7 Drives: Gen V Viper GTS Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: SoCal Posts: 260	I believe John Hennessey had a head to head of a C7Z and a new ZL1 A10 on his runway racetrack and they were about dead even In a straight line so power and speed were pretty close. The Nurburgring times for the ZL1 and 1LE were also pretty stout Last edited by Stealth7; 10-07-2018 at 05:32 PM.

10-07-2018, 07:27 PM	#8
Badmojo aka BeastZL1 Drives: 2019 Camaro ZL1 1LE, 2004 Cobra Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: NC Posts: 1,104	Track alignment (or a little more) is a big improvement. I'm running -2.4 front, -1.7 rear camber and it helps with grip and tire wear. Street wear hasn't been an issue with the ratio of track days to street miles for me. I would also recommend Castrol SRF brake fluid. The factory fluid deteriorates after a couple track sessions. Keep your tire pressure lower and target a max of 37 psig at the end of the session. The grip starts to go bye-bye at 38 psig and really goes beyond that. __________________ 2019 Camaro ZL1 1LE Racing for ALS Youtube Link

10-08-2018, 05:27 PM	#12
Badmojo aka BeastZL1 Drives: 2019 Camaro ZL1 1LE, 2004 Cobra Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: NC Posts: 1,104	Tip 1: Move the shift lever into manual and then back to drive to immediately end performance shift mode for the cool down laps. Tip 2: On one turn at Carolina Motorsport Park, the downshift happened a few times right when I got into the throttle. This upset the balance of the car. Solution is to just carry a little more speed and avoid the downshift at the apex. Tip 3: Unless you are really putting on the street miles, then the track alignment shouldn't kill the tires. I got 8 track days and 5000 miles out of my front tires. The wear pattern was relatively square. Tip 4: Use Track-Competition-PTM Race after you get comfortable with the car. Tip 5: Remove the water deflector from under the hood for track days. Tip 6: Get that PDR going. You need a FAT32 format SD card. Set your performance overlay to "track". Set the finish line (only once, it is permanent). Get the free Cosworth Toolbox to analyze your laps. Bonus Tip: Subscribe to my Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9j..._wOsWvJsfvL7QQ Cosworth Toolbox Download: http://download.cosworth.com/downloa...r/GM/Index.htm FAT32 Card: https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Canv...=SD+card+fat32 __________________ 2019 Camaro ZL1 1LE Racing for ALS Youtube Link

10-06-2018, 05:05 PM	#2
Stanimal Drives: 2019 Camaro ZL1 1LE Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Broward County, Florida Posts: 26	Great review. I'm coming from a C7 Z51. I'm anxiously awaiting a ZL1 1LE. I'm also in SoFla so I hope I'll see you soon at the track. Which club do you track with?

10-06-2018, 05:37 PM	#3
philpacs Drives: Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Florida Posts: 76	Sent you a PM

10-08-2018, 09:15 AM	#9
Revalot Drives: ZL1/1LE parts added Join Date: May 2018 Location: Somewhere around Texas pines tress and smooth asphalt Posts: 609	It's great to have a honest review from a C6 Z06 owner, and comments from C7 Z06 also, This car is a work of art, and the ZL1 1LE is a masterpiece ! In your report of the ZL1, you said for the track the ride could be a little more stiff, you just described the only short coming it had, and the ZL1 1LE is the answer. I hope someone lets you drive the 1LE version, sounds like it would put you over the top for sure ! Still has heated and cool seats ! LOL I'm going to surprise you guys before long ! I might just say look what showed up in my yard !

10-08-2018, 10:12 AM	#10
philpacs Drives: Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Florida Posts: 76	I will try to adjust the tire pressure lower next time. I did use SRF but didn't do the alignment since this is my daily driver and didn't' want to pay to multiple alignments etc. If I do a full weekend event I may spring for the alignments. Since it was my first time on track in this car I just wanted to learn the handling, power and balance so I can learn to be smooth before riding the limit. I was surprised how easily it was to get close to limits. I would love the 1LE but since this is my daily I heard the ride is a bit to rough and I'm getting old to row gears in my daily commute. The 1LE would also necessitate a second set of wheels/tires for daily use. Maybe in the future if I can get a second fun/track car. I would be interested if any other A10 tracking guys out there have had similar experiences with the tranny, tire pressure displays or general behavior? Great car I agree.

10-08-2018, 04:55 PM	#11
Cooter42 Drives: ZL1 1LE Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Oregon Posts: 28	Cool comparison by philpacs! Similarly, I had a C6Z and now running a ZL1 1LE. I don't have a comparative lap time, but I'm substantially quicker in the 1LE than the Z06. While I loved the LS7, I'm addicted to the instant response of the blown motor - this car leaps forward. I do wonder how a C6Z would run on the Goodyear F1 3R's. Think that car is probably the best performance/dollar value on the market...

10-09-2018, 10:51 AM	#13
RedHot18 Drives: 2018 ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Vero Beach FL Posts: 114	I went to the A10 from a Z51 2016 Vette. I track it up over at Sebring with the Chin boys. You will get used to the down shifts after a few outings. Everything already stated is correct, don't let your tire pressures get over 35 while tracking as they start to lose grip quickly. This car is really fun at bigger tracks than PBIR, 140 plus on back straight Sebring and over 160 approaching tri oval Daytona. Stock brakes are really good and rotors are super durable. I'm on forth or fifth set of pads on current rotors. I also live in S FLA. Chin has a Sebring event almost every month, I will probably do Chin 12/8 or Henry Gilbert PDG Florida on the 22nd there is also Daytona in Dec with HOD and again in Jan with PCA.

10-09-2018, 12:15 PM	#14
philpacs Drives: Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Florida Posts: 76	Thanks for your support and advise. I will definitely try those things mentioned. I'll probably do the alignment before the next event and keep on eye on the wear. I drive about 60 + miles a day. I might do Winterfest at Sebring, if not I'll look into other club events for sebring. Are you still using stock pads badmojo/redhot18?

User Name		Remember Me?
Password