[BradfordCamaro]

Lots of Go Faster places in Texas.. no fair

[7stringtheory]

Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro

Lots of Go Faster places in Texas.. no fair

Haha, it does mean you have to be careful who you try to get fiesty against. I feel like there is a 50/50 chance that any random car on the street in texas is FI and / or on nitrous.

[DFW1LE]

Originally Posted by 7stringtheory

They are competitively priced, they don't require a 6 figure budget....many people in this thread are local to their area, and it would take 15 minutes to talk to them and get a quote for what they are looking for. In fact I got a quote for heads + camshaft and it was cheaper after install then a lot of the figures already mentioned here.

I am assuming they are a machine shop only and do not do installs? It appears that Daddy Dave (love that show) has used them for his former drag truck, but have they done much for road course applications?

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by 7stringtheory

I'm telling you guys check out Frankenstein Engineering Dynamics in DFW they will custom grind a camshaft to whatever profile tailored to the exact application that you want, do whatever work you want on the heads and port match them to the intake...

Did FRH (Frankenstein Racing Heads) change their name or are we talking about two different companies. I have worked with Chris at Frankenstein Racing Heads in the past. Really good guy.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Imo supercharger is likely actually safe on the motor for a DD. Forced induction only adds torque. NA power adds power through torque and rpm.

You can gain hp by increasing torque and/or increasing rpm, gaining hp through torque is always easier for the engine then increasing rpm..



So it depends what your intent is. If a daily driver and you don't intend on long periods of repeated WOT, a supercharger is likely easier on the motor. Take it on a race track though, or even texas mile events, and it's more than likely you'll be able to do a lot more of those on an NA build.

That's not discussing the transmission and drivetrain though, torque is their enemy where as hp through rpm is no problem at all. Not much of an issue with the 8l90 though until you are making big power.

Agree on drivetrain. On engine, it would be my opinion that the slight increase in fuel cut say from 6600 to 6800 and how much time a DD will actually be in that range. VS a supercharger always turning and most time adding a little boost... I think the nod to which can go 100K, 150K and 200K would favor reasonable NA.

I feel all modern engines have thin rings and high ring lands for smog and MPG, this make for a weak piston. The failure mode on a LT1 is piston, either through wear via miles or destruction via boost. I'm decidedly on the side that reasonable NA is FAR more dependable vs boost on a 11.4 CR engine. Also the chamber pressure / torque does cause more side load between the piston and bore leading to more wear.

Likewise a upgrade to LT4 type pistons for supercharger vs stronger rods for NA would yield roughly the same dependability.... but we know how that goes, the boost guys would turn up the boost and the NA guys would drop in a bigger can and go above 7000 RPM... My last car was a supercharged challenger, I own a supercharged 2015 Civic SI.

[LesBaer]

What are you guys seeing for prices on those drop in forged pistons and rods (install + labor)? I'm thinking that it might make more sense to put that money towards a bigger motor. Assuming you have some type of engine failure, you should still be able to get a decent chunk of change back that you could put towards a new motor by selling what's left. I know this stuff is unpredictable (hood could be damaged, etc.) and you'd lose the cam, but in the grand scheme of things do you think it makes more sense to pour more money into prevention on the LT1 or just get the most you can out of what you have and then focus on moving the bar forward? After all, we're all in this section of the forum because we want to go faster

The rear diff isn't going to last forever either. I know a lot of folks replaced axles and driveshafts already, but I'm going to ride mine out until it breaks. I added a driveshaft loop for cheap insurance now and the long term plan is the new gforce 9" rear, which I'd need to buy a driveshaft and axles for as well. I'm not sure it makes sense to do it twice, replacing parts that aren't broken...

[oldman]

I have been out of the LS since my LS1 and the original 1997 -1999 had weaker rod bolts. Guys with the LS3 seem to think upto and beyond 7000 RPM is not a problem.... dunno. I was into Challengers and ricers. IMO, I'd go with a 416 CID rod / piston package to make it worth while....

https://www.texas-speed.com/p-4301-t...-assembly.aspx

and for the Lt4
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-5584-t...lt1lt4l86.aspx

and sooner or later GM will release a 4.125 bore block so this will become cheaper:
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...d-performance/

Not the sub 7000 RPM and 520 ft - lbs

[DFW1LE]

I'd love a 416 stroker motor, but adding new forged crank, pistons and rods, in addition to heads/cam will increase the cost significantly. I suppose on the cheap end such an install might cost $15K, but could even go for $20K+ depending on the components you select.

[oldman]

It is a slippery slope, LOL, I see nothing wrong with the TexSpeed base package in the 2200 buck range.

[RideZX6R]

I did the math on this stuff myself and the cost was within 10% of one or the other...

Thing was... fueling... It's really the problem as far as cost goes - You have to address it one way or another.

You bolt on an ECS1500 for example and on an M6 car with no other mods you're somewhere in the 550-600whp range and basically besides doing methanol injection, you're out of fuel there, you need an LT4 pump ($800+) or injectors ($1000+ IIRC) (or both $$$) or just a cam to add the fuel lobe (cam kit is $1000 - after springs and other required parts, not incl labor) - or all 3...

If you do heads/cam you get the fuel lobe and you can make 500-550whp (especially on e85) assuming you're doing headers/intake and porting the im/tb - and those supporting mods+heads cam is about the same money as the blower (in parts anyway). And if you want to do any other power mods beyond that... you need fueling as well because, again, 550-600 is your limit.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do... I do street driving mainly, but also a lot of road course stuff with my 1LE... and occasionally I do roll racing events (Shift Sector) for fun. So I want a linear powerband that won't upset the car as I apply throttle coming out of corners on track, but also would like big power for highway/roll race and street fun.

a big heads/cam pack will be powerful and predictable on track... but might drive kinda shitty on the street.
On the other hand, a blower will make the same power and be great for upgradeability later for highway stuff, but might be more violent at the track.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by RideZX6R

I did the math on this stuff myself and the cost was within 10% of one or the other...

Thing was... fueling... It's really the problem as far as cost goes - You have to address it one way or another.

You bolt on an ECS1500 for example and on an M6 car with no other mods you're somewhere in the 550-600whp range and basically besides doing methanol injection, you're out of fuel there, you need an LT4 pump ($800+) or injectors ($1000+ IIRC) (or both $$$) or just a cam to add the fuel lobe (cam kit is $1000) - or all 3...

If you do heads/cam you get the fuel lobe and you can make 500-550whp (especially on e85) assuming you're doing headers/intake and porting the im/tb - and those supporting mods+heads cam is about the same money as the blower (in parts anyway). And if you want to do any other power mods beyond that... you need fueling as well because, again, 550-600 is your limit.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do... I do street driving mainly, but also a lot of road course stuff with my 1LE... and occasionally I do roll racing events (Shift Sector) for fun. So I want a linear powerband that won't upset the car as I apply throttle coming out of corners on track, but also would like big power for highway/roll race and street fun.

a big heads/cam pack will be powerful and predictable on track... but might drive kinda shitty on the street.
On the other hand, a blower will make the same power and be great for upgradeability later for highway stuff, but might be more violent at the track.

Just be careful with the long highway pulls or half mile events with FI. Procharger has been saying for a while that these stock short blocks have extremely tight ring gaps and have been popping on long boosted runs. Even they don't recommend it and I say good on them for bringing honesty to the forefront.

[bigsapper]

Originally Posted by PRAY

Just be careful with the long highway pulls or half mile events with FI. Procharger has been saying for a while that these stock short blocks have extremely tight ring gaps and have been popping on long boosted runs. Even they don't recommend it and I say good on them for bringing honesty to the forefront.

I'd be interested in reading more about this if you have a link(s).

[LesBaer]

I've only done a few obligatory top speed runs right after I got my blower and headers, and then again after the cam, E85/fuel system, and boost were dialed up. The chances of something going wrong are always going to be greater with longer pulls, so I've been keeping them under a 1/4 now that my curiosity's been satisfied. So far I haven't run into anything that can keep up...it's been over before it even starts.

I do like TSP. So do you guys think it's worth it for me to go back and add their rotating assembly kit? Also, I never did ported heads.

https://www.texas-speed.com/p-4301-t...-assembly.aspx

If I'm wrong about any of this please let me know. I just think it makes more sense to take my chances as it is now, and go for a 416 or 427 if I have a catastrophic failure. On a street car that's had fueling addressed, that isn't abused or put through extended top speed runs, I also may never end up in that situation.

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by RideZX6R

I did the math on this stuff myself and the cost was within 10% of one or the other...

Thing was... fueling... It's really the problem as far as cost goes - You have to address it one way or another.

You bolt on an ECS1500 for example and on an M6 car with no other mods you're somewhere in the 550-600whp range and basically besides doing methanol injection, you're out of fuel there, you need an LT4 pump ($800+) or injectors ($1000+ IIRC) (or both $$$) or just a cam to add the fuel lobe (cam kit is $1000) - or all 3...

If you do heads/cam you get the fuel lobe and you can make 500-550whp (especially on e85) assuming you're doing headers/intake and porting the im/tb - and those supporting mods+heads cam is about the same money as the blower (in parts anyway). And if you want to do any other power mods beyond that... you need fueling as well because, again, 550-600 is your limit.

I'm still not sure what I'm going to do... I do street driving mainly, but also a lot of road course stuff with my 1LE... and occasionally I do roll racing events (Shift Sector) for fun. So I want a linear powerband that won't upset the car as I apply throttle coming out of corners on track, but also would like big power for highway/roll race and street fun.

a big heads/cam pack will be powerful and predictable on track... but might drive kinda shitty on the street.
On the other hand, a blower will make the same power and be great for upgradeability later for highway stuff, but might be more violent at the track.

Well researched and thought out.

It has me back at the GM hot cam and CNC heads, honestly. Not sure for track work if power above that will be effective out of turns.