[90503]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Hopefully someone smarter than me can chime in, but I think Camaro is going to survive because of Cadillac. The CT5 and future gen Camaro will share Alpha II. They need both cars to chew up some volume, I don't think either can survive on its own

Impala's volume on a platform that surely was long ago paid for and likely still profitable, was built in two plants, outsold all Cadillacs and Camaros, yet it was discontinued. Go figure.

[detltu]

Honestly those aren't' great numbers for any of these cars. The Camaro is particularly frightening though. They are all going to have to do something to broaden their appeal.

[Doc]

Fleet sales accomplish two things. One, because you're making more vehicles and ordering more components, your cost per part goes down so it costs you less to make a vehicle.

Two, it puts more vehicles in front of the public, and people who might not ever visit a Chevy dealer to do a test drive, just might rent one if they see there's one to rent. In a roundabout way, fleet cars provide some advertising exposure. If you combine that with a decent advertising campaign (which Chevy doesn't have for the Camaro) then people may just rent before buying in order to try one out for an extended period of time.

Even if they don't make much money on fleet sales, I still think they serve as an advertising platform which makes fleet sales worthwhile. It's better than nothing, which right now it looks like the sales results of the Camaro for the past 11 months has shown what you get when you do very little to nothing to promote your product.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Doc

Fleet sales accomplish two things. One, because you're making more vehicles and ordering more components, your cost per part goes down so it costs you less to make a vehicle.

Two, it puts more vehicles in front of the public, and people who might not ever visit a Chevy dealer to do a test drive, just might rent one if they see there's one to rent. In a roundabout way, fleet cars provide some advertising exposure. If you combine that with a decent advertising campaign (which Chevy doesn't have for the Camaro) then people may just rent before buying in order to try one out for an extended period of time.

Even if they don't make much money on fleet sales, I still think they serve as an advertising platform which makes fleet sales worthwhile. It's better than nothing, which right now it looks like the sales results of the Camaro for the past 11 months has shown what you get when you do very little to nothing to promote your product.

The big down to fleet sales is it destroys residual values. Bad residuals hurt lease pricing. And when you want to trade in for a new car it is important to have a higher residual. Both of these hurt sales. This is the singular reason why GM brought the Chevy Captiva SUV to market. Rental sales only and to protect Equinox residuals.

So there are a few good things, but they are pretty much offset by having rental versions of your car competing in the used market at deep discount prices.

[Number 3]

For historical reference, 2002 Camaro sales were 42,000 units. 2003? ZERO

Camaro is alive at least partially because the Alpha platform and LGR need the volume. If Cadillac were to drop Alpha sedans then Camaro alone wouldn't be able to support LGR and the car would again be at risk. It would essentially be a Corvette and require Corvette prices.

All hail to the Cadillac CT5

[18LTLoveIt]

Mustang and Camaros are no longer 'Muscle Cars' .2016 Camaro & 2015 Mustangs entered the 'Sportscar' era/group. Challenger is the only Muscle Car left which is a testament to a 10 yr old car outselling new Camaros.

Mustang will remain to be king of sales because of price. The exception was 5th Gens outselling Mustangs for 4.5 yrs consecutively with a home run in style.

[Cake's Z]

I considered all three options. Sat in a very nice 2019 GT premium, build quality was pretty nice and the exhaust note was awesome!

Test drove an 18 ZL1 and fell in love! For me the fit and finish just sealed the deal and I couldn’t be happier. I wouldn’t blame anybody for buying a Ford or Dodge, they are all awesome machines and each one excels in different areas.

[franksredhot]

At this point its hard to compare a Camaro to a Challenger. The Camaro is a small sports car and that style of car will never have big sales again. The Challenger is selling more because of the useable back seats and trunk. I'm fine with the Camaro because it is my weekend car. If I needed to commute, drive kids and use the car for work, I'd probably go for a Challenger. The Mustang is definitely more comparable to the Camaro and will remain the main competition. Eventually the public will realize the Challenger is a real dinosaur. Crazy that it is still based on the late 90's Mercedes chassis.

[rocknss]

Originally Posted by mondelo

Agreed. When i rent cars on trips there's always a challenger, sometimes a mustang and hardly ever a camaro

I rent from National & Hertz

Yep, I travel for my job too and I see way more Challengers and Mustangs than Camaros.

[AZCamaroFan]

the Challenger's size is what a Chevelle or large mid size muscle car was than a pony car like the Camaro and Mustang. Still don't recall the last time i saw anyone in the backseat of one.

[BlackbeastSS2]

Out of those sales for Camaro, I wonder what the break down is for models.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The big down to fleet sales is it destroys residual values. Bad residuals hurt lease pricing. And when you want to trade in for a new car it is important to have a higher residual. Both of these hurt sales. This is the singular reason why GM brought the Chevy Captiva SUV to market. Rental sales only and to protect Equinox residuals.

So there are a few good things, but they are pretty much offset by having rental versions of your car competing in the used market at deep discount prices.

That's a good point, but are most Camaro sales leases or buys? Residuals won't matter if the sales trend downward continues; they'll discontinue it again like they did before. If they want to save it (and I sure hope they do) then they have to do something. Any ideas?

My suggestion a few years ago about reinventing the pony car didn't seem to go over very well with the enthusiast crowd in here, but to the much larger customer base 'out there'? They're responding to the Dodge offerings over the Camaro. When you look at the sales figures for all 3 companies, there's still a market out there. And none of those companies are offering what I was suggesting, which is a reinvented pony car somewhere between $22k and $25k. It won't be an enthusiasts car; it would be for the 98% that won't ever go to a track or use that kind of performance.

A beautiful, eye-catching, sporty looking car that looks like an American car; specifically and unmistakably a Chevrolet (not a me-too one-world design) in the low 20's would really hit the sweet spot as a second or third car for a family, or a first and only car for a young single or even new couple. It doesn't even 'have' to be a 2 door coupe; it can be a 4 door sedan if it has to be to sell. Just give it the styling of a 2 door coupe.

I wish they'd at least design one as a concept car and show it off to see the reaction, and mention the price point to see what kind of response they'd get. It could even be a hybrid; moving into the future with a rebirth and modern interpretation of the classic pony car.

[gringo]

Originally Posted by Doc

That's a good point, but are most Camaro sales leases or buys? Residuals won't matter if the sales trend downward continues; they'll discontinue it again like they did before. If they want to save it (and I sure hope they do) then they have to do something. Any ideas?

They need to go into a new styling direction than the current 6th gen. Higher belt lines, smaller back seats, smaller and narrower trunks, less practicality and more of a pinched in look with a gladiator helmet styled front end is definitely not the answer for increased sales.

My suggestion a few years ago about reinventing the pony car didn't seem to go over very well with the enthusiast crowd in here, but to the much larger customer base 'out there'? They're responding to the Dodge offerings over the Camaro. When you look at the sales figures for all 3 companies, there's still a market out there. And none of those companies are offering what I was suggesting, which is a reinvented pony car somewhere between $22k and $25k. It won't be an enthusiasts car; it would be for the 98% that won't ever go to a track or use that kind of performance.

Most SS buyers (and I'd bet even a majority of ZL1 buyers) don't go to the track or use the level of performance the Camaro offers right now. Technically, the base turbo 4 and V6 are not really enthusiasts cars, per se. However, with the Alpha platform, the prices are slightly higher more than they should be. It's probably why Chevy reintroduced the lower priced model (1LS) a few years into production in the 6th gen.

A beautiful, eye-catching, sporty looking car that looks like an American car; specifically and unmistakably a Chevrolet (not a me-too one-world design) in the low 20's would really hit the sweet spot as a second or third car for a family, or a first and only car for a young single or even new couple. It doesn't even 'have' to be a 2 door coupe; it can be a 4 door sedan if it has to be to sell. Just give it the styling of a 2 door coupe.

A sporty 4 door CUV style Camaro? Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather them just discontinue the nameplate than do that. However, the new Blazer does qualify to some degree to what you're describing.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by gringo

...A sporty 4 door CUV style Camaro? Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather them just discontinue the nameplate than do that. However, the new Blazer does qualify to some degree to what you're describing.

I clearly said "pony car" and "2 door coupe" styling. How did you get CUV out of that??