[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

So much anti Americanism. They think that because another country makes it its supposed to somehow be better. So many Americans bash America and will support Japan, Germany and S Kor. before even thinking about buying AmericaN. They fail to realize the stronger American manufacturing is the stronger the country. Once big manufacturing is diminished to a burned out cinder this country will become incredibly weak and dependent and better pray no war breaks out and we are dependent on imported steel from China and Japan and Germany will be building our Military equipment. Lack of foresight is killing this country.

but don't many of these "foreign" manufacturers have plants here in the US and support tens of thousands of American jobs?

Also, should we not be free to choose without being labeled as "anti-American?"

Let the best manufacturer win! The Free Market will decide.

Maybe we can have a steel industry to sell American steel to those "foreigners", but again, the free market dictates that manufacturers choose which steel to buy based on quality and price, so if we are all that superior, we'd be doing it. Matter of fact, our system allows any one of us to go out and give it a good old college try.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by fastball

Lutz stated GM should have eliminated many more cars back in 2008 after the BK. He was in favor of eliminating Buick.

Just because he owns a vintage Jaguar and helped create the Viper doesn’t mean he is just a car guy.

Lutz not a real car guy in the same vain as a Bill Mitchel are Harley Earl. I bet Earl and Mitchel could put out some stunning cars even though they are designed in a wind tunnel. They had imagination, that's whats missing today.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

but don't many of these "foreign" manufacturers have plants here in the US and support tens of thousands of American jobs?

Also, should we not be free to choose without being labeled as "anti-American?"

Let the best manufacturer win! The Free Market will decide.

Yeh and the profits go back to their home country. Once they get true power and conflict begins they can turn off the spickets, stop the steel from flowing. America will just pray they can catchup.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Doc

Don't you find it kind of ironic, that GM's response to their situation is close factories, and this forum's response to talking about it is to close threads? Nothing gets solved; no new ideas get put forth by "protecting" everyone from seeing/talking about it. Protection is a defensive strategy; we need an offensive strategy.

I absolutely hate the idea of autonomous vehicles. Why are all the car companies everywhere working on this? Why did they all do it at the same time? Who asked for that?

What we need is creativity and good old-fashioned Yankee ingenuity. This country became famous for it.

If I was in charge, here's where I'd start. I'd get all 3 members of today's modern single-customer that's a family of 3, and I'd sit down with them and ask what catches their eye when they look at a car. What do they currently drive? Chances are, it isn't a GM product. Why? And I would LISTEN to them; not defend, not make excuses, not blame... LISTEN. What do they like about what they currently drive? What do they not like? What would they like to experience if they could make changes?

Start with a clean sheet of paper, and find out what the customers think and feel about their experience; not only with the vehicles they currently own, but shopping and buying a vehicle in the first place.

Right now, dealers order loaded out models, and push the customers towards those because that's what the dealers want. Manufacturers design 'packages' that have what THEY want in them. What do the CUSTOMERS want? And don't ask them that, then start making excuses as to why what they want can't happen. LISTEN to them and figure out how to make it happen; that's why you're a professional getting paid big bucks. Don't make excuses, figure out how to make it happen. Guess what will happen if you do? You'll be a star.

Changing the way manufacturers and dealers think is the first step in making the kind of changes that will enable them to get up to speed with the changes that have happened in society. Like it or not, the internet and mobile phones have changed the world. People's expectations and perceptions of how, what and where have changed dramatically.

How about a virtual dealership? Instead of a lot full of cars the dealer wanted to order, how about a showroom with beautiful workstations connected to the factory? One car in the show room; spheres sitting on pedestals under the lights with all the colors that are available so you can see what they actually look like. When I ordered my 2009 Camaro in Imperial Blue Metallic, the image on their website wasn't even close to the way the color looked. What if I could sit down at one of those wide-screen stations; screens in 4k, and choose what I wanted on the car, and as I did, that model appeared on the screen exactly how I wanted it. Once the order was done and finalized, that order is sent to the factory which essentially functions like a giant, remote CNC situation, where the choices I made are translated into a produced car. It doesn't take months, it could take less than a week because the factory is set up to do things like this.

This type of system would require thinking differently about manufacturing and how things are done. Upgrade the customer experience and make it fun and exciting to order and buy a car. After they've made their choice, whether they buy at that moment or not, save the file and make it available to them as a viewable file on their phone, computer, Playstation/X-box. Let them take that home and get excited about it to help build anticipation before the car is delivered.

There's a lot of things that can be done, but it requires stepping past the fear and yellow hazard warning tape that's paralyzing the decision makers.

You want to build an exciting car that the customers want? Start with their experience; what they see and experience first, and how that plays out. JD Power studies are not it. Design a great interior first; make one for the SUV/truck that mom drives, the executive sedan that dad drives, and then the car that the teens want to drive. Once you have that designed, then work on building a chassis and powertrain around that. Don't compromise the interior, figure out how to make the chassis work with and around it. Once you have that, THEN design the exterior. Car makers always start with a designer sketch of the exterior. Change that; "think different" to quote an Apple saying. Steve Jobs did things all the industry experts said couldn't be done, and he did it more than once. He didn't just focus on products, he included the customer experience in how they purchased those products, and what they experienced when using them. This gave birth to the iTunes store, the App store, and the retail Apple stores themselves. GM and American car companies need to look at that very carefully, and think different about what their customers are experiencing.

When I go to the mall, the big box stores are mostly empty; the Apple store is always full. And it's not because they have the cheapest products; they don't. Imagine walking into something like an Apple store, except it's for cars. In addition to the scenario I described above, now imagine there's also accessory stations where you can choose accessories; travel cups, car covers, window shades, clothing, travel bags, custom wheels, tires, performance goodies... make it exciting to be there even if you aren't buying a car. Going to a car dealer now is like going to the hospital to see the doctor; it's going to hurt, it's going to be expensive, and it's going to take hours.

THINK DIFFERENT and you'll get different results.

Yeh..I agree with much of what you said. Seems like GM is just trying to start a new venture instead of addressing a fixable problem. I pretty much worked out the deal to buy my car all online. Once the deal and price was worked out with about 30 back and forth emails I then drove 40 min. to the dealer did a test drive and bought the car. I didn't waste my time haggling face to face with a dealer. I told the dealer exactly how much I was willing to pay taxes and tags out the door and he said he could do it so we did it. Also I like supporting America..I'm not in the market for a family sedan but if I was it would an American car purchase.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by 90503

The way this topic has been treated on this forum is sad. This forum, like GM, is dying a tortured death....After all yesterday's thread closings, I think I'm throwing in the towel on this place....It's not worth the aggravation...


I'll just drive my 5th Gen until the wheels fall off....to hell with everything else.....


Here's the future and GM's destiny....Good luck...


Attachment 965906

Attachment 965907

Its a Roller Skate...GM will be making Roller Skates.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Wouldnt you think by now that people would have learned something from the past. 2008 wasn't that long ago. Gas came down a little and everyone is back to buying trucks and SUVs. GM shifting focus back to these vehicles. This is primed to all come to a crashing hault again. Glad I didnt get sucked in this time around. Only difference this time for GM is that they are making huge profits on these very expensive vehilces. Hofully they are keeping some back for the lean times will be returning real soon.
It cracks me up at their excuses for these layoffs. If you believe any of it, I have some nice ocean front property in central PA to sell you. The economy isnt doing nearly as well as it may look right now. A lot of sectors are starting to go soft. In a couple of years GM won't be able to give away their 60 to 70 grand land yachts. My dealer friend dropped all of his new cars sales and shifted to all used cars and repair except for his Kia dealership. He had GM, Ford and Chrysler/fiat. All just used car centers now. He said it's much more profitable then new cars except for Kia. The big three are pricing themselves right back to asking the government for money again.

agreed.and since GM is moving production to china/mexico and shuttering plants in the USA,when they ask for money Trump will be correct when he tells them to go F themselves.i wouldnt buy a chinese camaro.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

Lutz not a real car guy in the same vain as a Bill Mitchel are Harley Earl. I bet Earl and Mitchel could put out some stunning cars even though they are designed in a wind tunnel. They had imagination, that's whats missing today.

the saturn sky and pontiac solstice were built under lutz.very good looking,small,sporty cars.i still dont know why they didnt sell more.

[DangerZL1]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

the saturn sky and pontiac solstice were built under lutz.very good looking,small,sporty cars.i still dont know why they didnt sell more.

I was sad to see them go down with the two divisions and was hoping they'd move one of them to Chevy.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

the saturn sky and pontiac solstice were built under lutz.very good looking,small,sporty cars.i still dont know why they didnt sell more.

Great chassis but the interior execution was horrible. Especially in the Solstice.

And as usual, GM did not promote them. Particularly the Sky. People in a Saturn dealer buying a Saturn would ask what is that.

[Whocares05050]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

Yeh and the profits go back to their home country. Once they get true power and conflict begins they can turn off the spickets, stop the steel from flowing. America will just pray they can catchup.

That is 100% untrue. Where did you learn economics. These manufactures have different divisions and corporations setup up separately from their home base in their home countries. The fact that about 100k people have well paying jobs that are paying their bills and injecting their money INTO the unites states helps OUR country.

What is HURTING american workers and OUR economy is having chinese parts shipped to mexico and having the completed vehicles allocated to dealers to save a buck and only GM capitalizes. Do you go and buy that 2k dollar made in america bbq grill or did ya buy the one on sale made in china for 199? Thought so. Not everything can be made american and if it were many people bitching like you wouldnt go out of your way to spend the extra money

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by Whocares05050

. Do you go and buy that 2k dollar made in america bbq grill or did ya buy the one on sale made in china for 199? Thought so. Not everything can be made american and if it were many people bitching like you wouldnt go out of your way to spend the extra money

Just sayin...I did go out and buy a Lynx Grill, and let me tell you, they ain't cheap when made in USA (BTW, $2K is still Chinese). But, it cooks one helluva USDA Prime Ribeye baby!

I will say, where it was made had no impact on my decision, I wanted and sought out the best grill I could find for the money I was willing to spend and it happens to be made in California.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by fastball

Great chassis but the interior execution was horrible. Especially in the Solstice.

And as usual, GM did not promote them. Particularly the Sky. People in a Saturn dealer buying a Saturn would ask what is that.

i actually traded a 2006 solstice in when i bought my 2015 camaro.got tired of the wife bitching about how impractical it was and at 6 ft2,i could have used a little more room.but it was a great car,drove like a go kart.

[oneredry]

I think DOC somewhat nailed it when he said virtual dealers. Similar tothat of Tesla.
I don't like the fact of virtual cars either, but its bound to happen. if you go this route, customer will be happy because dealers won't push you, or give you false information and mark the cars cheaper because your not paying the middle man. Gratend, you'll have to have something for test drive purposes and servicing.

[Whocares05050]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Just sayin...I did go out and buy a Lynx Grill, and let me tell you, they ain't cheap when made in USA (BTW, $2K is still Chinese). But, it cooks one helluva USDA Prime Ribeye baby!

I will say, where it was made had no impact on my decision, I wanted and sought out the best grill I could find for the money I was willing to spend and it happens to be made in California.

You get the damn point grillmaster 🤣🤣🤣