[DaveC113]

Lots of competition at those prices, as good as the GT500 is, it's heavy AF in a chassis that's not as good as the competition and shared with rental cars. ZLE is facing similar issues but is a much faster and more competent track car, so IMO it's a better value vs the GT500 for those who value what it's intended purpose is.

I've also heard GT500 has about 100 mile range on the street and can't stay out on track for too long because it uses all the gas.

I'd take a C8 all day every day over a GT500... and many other cars would go on the short list before a GT500 too.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Actually, scratch that...I just looked a bit more and it does seem like these dealerships are advertising them (GT500s) at MSRP. Now maybe they are doing some trickery like just not advertising the markups or maybe it is totally legit. I don't know. But perhaps now with this Pandemic and most people not trying to buy super expensive cars and much less cars with huge markups attached...and with the competition offering huge discounts like I already mentioned, maybe these dealerships have no choice but to sell them at MSRP. Otherwise the car sits on the lot and they're losing money every day it stays there. In any case, it might be worthwhile to go take a look and see exactly how much I can get one OTD for. LOL!!

Over 90% of the listings in Houston have markup, even some of the used cars are listed with markups.

Even if it came in a manual, and as you said, it's just WAY more expensive than its competition.

[NW-99SS]

I have a feeling Ford is about to learn a Gen V Viper lesson in product pricing with the GT500.

[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Actually, scratch that...I just looked a bit more and it does seem like these dealerships are advertising them (GT500s) at MSRP. Now maybe they are doing some trickery like just not advertising the markups or maybe it is totally legit. I don't know. But perhaps now with this Pandemic and most people not trying to buy super expensive cars and much less cars with huge markups attached...and with the competition offering huge discounts like I already mentioned, maybe these dealerships have no choice but to sell them at MSRP. Otherwise the car sits on the lot and they're losing money every day it stays there. In any case, it might be worthwhile to go take a look and see exactly how much I can get one OTD for. LOL!!

Just my experiences with the local dealerships. I've seen 3 gt500's in the last 6 months at the dealer. Last one was about a month ago, $84k, markup was 30k. Total 114k. Other 2 we're right around that price also +/- 3k. Not cftp, just handling package added. I'm also in socal so might be the reason for their premium

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Lots of competition at those prices, as good as the GT500 is, it's heavy AF in a chassis that's not as good as the competition and shared with rental cars. ZLE is facing similar issues but is a much faster and more competent track car, so IMO it's a better value vs the GT500 for those who value what it's intended purpose is.

I've also heard GT500 has about 100 mile range on the street and can't stay out on track for too long because it uses all the gas.

I'd take a C8 all day every day over a GT500... and many other cars would go on the short list before a GT500 too.

Also read the same regarding the gas tank. 16gal tank + 760hp + 4225lbs = your not passing many gas stations. ZL1 isn't too far behind but don't think its quite that bad

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I think GM may have realized the upper limit of Pony car sales with the 5th gen Z/28 and the 6th ZLE.

I know of a few GT500s that are sitting on dealer lots with regular calls going out to potential buyers in hopes of moving them...but they sat all summer and fall due to dealer ADMs, and even when dropped to MSRP now, still sitting.

And not for nothing, those were decent deals at their time...the 6th Gen ZLE more so than the 5th Gen Z28 for sure.

However I think Ford and Dodge were doing pretty decent with the GT500 and Hellcat/Redeye before the Pandemic hit. I kinda think that was the downfall. I mean, these Ford guys were actually bragging about paying markups. Kinda like it made them feel some sort of superiority complex that they were paying thousands of dollars more than the car cost. And the Redeye guys weren't much better. I didn't think any of these cars should have been anywhere even close to mid $90K and yet that is where they were. I wonder if the Pandemic actually prevented us from seeing $70K SS and GTs in the next few years.

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Lots of competition at those prices, as good as the GT500 is, it's heavy AF in a chassis that's not as good as the competition and shared with rental cars. ZLE is facing similar issues but is a much faster and more competent track car, so IMO it's a better value vs the GT500 for those who value what it's intended purpose is.

I've also heard GT500 has about 100 mile range on the street and can't stay out on track for too long because it uses all the gas.

I'd take a C8 all day every day over a GT500... and many other cars would go on the short list before a GT500 too.

Yea they sure did put a tiny tank on them. Again, another reason why I dislike Ford. It's like they just threw the car together.

I'm also hearing something about how if you take the car onto the track your warranty is automatically voided. I'm trying to find some more info on that. But there is an exclusion in the manual saying that any damage while at the track is not covered under warranty. Weird. It literally has a track option and was hailed as a track car and now Ford sneakily backs out of it with a disclaimer in the owner's manual.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Over 90% of the listings in Houston have markup, even some of the used cars are listed with markups.

Even if it came in a manual, and as you said, it's just WAY more expensive than its competition.

Charge more and offer less. Ford.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I have a feeling Ford is about to learn a Gen V Viper lesson in product pricing with the GT500.

I have a feeling they're gonna learn some hard lessons. And their dealerships as well. As these cars sit there collecting dust they will eventually have to let them go at MSRP. Or even with a discount. Which kinda makes me laugh at all those guys who were paying $10K+ ADMs just for that same car to be offered at MSRP or below just months later. I said it before, they should have learned from the Hellcats guys back in 2015. The Dodge guys figured it out in a year. The Ford guys then turned around and paid markups for the GT350 for years and then did the same thing with the GT500. Not for nothing, if I really can get one at MSRP then it is something I'd have to consider. I'd probably ditch the Hellcat.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Evansa22

Also read the same regarding the gas tank. 16gal tank + 760hp + 4225lbs = your not passing many gas stations. ZL1 isn't too far behind but don't think its quite that bad

Yeah, 19gal tank + 650hp + 3944lbs translates to much lower fill frequency. The EPA range of the GT500 is only 225 miles, and nobody drives a muscle car like that.

[jvandy50]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I think GM may have realized the upper limit of Pony car sales with the 5th gen Z/28 and the 6th ZLE.

I know of a few GT500s that are sitting on dealer lots with regular calls going out to potential buyers in hopes of moving them...but they sat all summer and fall due to dealer ADMs, and even when dropped to MSRP now, still sitting.

Did you call about these MSRP deals, or just see them advertised? I only ask because i just read where a guy called 70 dealers before finding his MSRP deal lol. Plenty advertised at MSRP though...until ya call!

My want for a 500 has greatly decreased after reading how everyone just “puts it in D” and the DCT is the greatest ever. I was hoping for some fun with the paddles, but from most of what I’ve read people are just letting the tranny do the work. I did see a CFTP in iconic silver with a black roof and no stripes...kinda made my leg shake...but it’s TWICE the price of my ZLE lol, nope.

Also, concerning the track warranty thing, i cant find it now but I’d read where in one year ford’s warranty claims went from 2 billion to 5 billion, and it makes me wonder if this caused a change in verbiage...

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by jvandy50

Did you call about these MSRP deals, or just see them advertised? I only ask because i just read where a guy called 70 dealers before finding his MSRP deal lol. Plenty advertised at MSRP though...until ya call!

I didn't get a chance to call. But if that is what they're doing, advertising at MSRP but then adding on the markups when you call, then that is a bit low. I mean, do they think a 5 min conversation will change my mind from not paying markups to suddenly paying them? LOL!!

Originally Posted by jvandy50

My want for a 500 has greatly decreased after reading how everyone just “puts it in D” and the DCT is the greatest ever. I was hoping for some fun with the paddles, but from most of what I’ve read people are just letting the tranny do the work. I did see a CFTP in iconic silver with a black roof and no stripes...kinda made my leg shake...but it’s TWICE the price of my ZLE lol, nope.

Yea I figure they were going to lose business to the manual faithful crowd. I think they should have offered a manual version.

Originally Posted by jvandy50

Also, concerning the track warranty thing, i cant find it now but I’d read where in one year ford’s warranty claims went from 2 billion to 5 billion, and it makes me wonder if this caused a change in verbiage...

Probably exacerbated by all the engine issues with the GT350.

[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by Evansa22

Also read the same regarding the gas tank. 16gal tank + 760hp + 4225lbs = your not passing many gas stations. ZL1 isn't too far behind but don't think its quite that bad

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Yeah, 19gal tank + 650hp + 3944lbs translates to much lower fill frequency. The EPA range of the GT500 is only 225 miles, and nobody drives a muscle car like that.

Like I said, may not be much better in the zl1. May matter to some, and not to others. But they squeezed every ounce they could get out of that heavy car which is why I'm assuming the small tank. At 6.3 pounds per gallon, only saving about 19lbs, maybe it was more of a packaging decision, not sure. Average of 15 mpgs, your only getting an extra 45 miles or so in the zl1. I drive mine for fun so the extra fill ups wouldn't bother me so much but again ill keep reiterating, it's another 50k roughly for the 500. For the extra coin hell I'll throw an auxiliary tank in my car somewhere if it was a huge deal.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Evansa22

Like I said, may not be much better in the zl1. May matter to some, and not to others. But they squeezed every ounce they could get out of that heavy car which is why I'm assuming the small tank. At 6.3 pounds per gallon, only saving about 19lbs, maybe it was more of a packaging decision, not sure. Average of 15 mpgs, your only getting an extra 45 miles or so in the zl1. I drive mine for fun so the extra fill ups wouldn't bother me so much but again ill keep reiterating, it's another 50k roughly for the 500. For the extra coin hell I'll throw an auxiliary tank in my car somewhere if it was a huge deal.

Tanks are typically a platform thing. They’re not mix and match. I would assume the tank is the same for all Mustangs. Since the vast majority of Mustangs sold have 4-cylinders, Ford can get away with a smaller tank in order to keep mass down. And still achieve decent range. Camaro is a little different, because it shares platform with Cadillacs that have majority of sales with a V6 and also have a buyer set that values longer range cruising.

[DaveC113]

I have not seen a test that comes out and says exactly what the real-world GT500 fuel economy is, but I have heard ~100 mile range, that would make for well under 10 mpg avg, about double the gas a ZL1 would use. I have a hard time believing it could be that bad, but otoh tests have said it's unbelievably bad.

[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Tanks are typically a platform thing. They’re not mix and match. I would assume the tank is the same for all Mustangs. Since the vast majority of Mustangs sold have 4-cylinders, Ford can get away with a smaller tank in order to keep mass down. And still achieve decent range. Camaro is a little different, because it shares platform with Cadillacs that have majority of sales with a V6 and also have a buyer set that values longer range cruising.

Thanks for the insight! Definitely something I didn't consider. Would've hoped they'd have done a little revision for a halo model but makes sense. Thanks Martin

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

People complaining about the fuel efficiency of a factory 760 hp car? Grasping at straws. Anyway, C&D tested the ZLE vs GT500 CFTP vs Challenger Hellcat Redeye:

ZLE: 3,886 lbs; 14 mpg
GT500 CFTP: 4,059 lbs (not the 4225 lbs that everyone keeps incorrectly quoting) and 13 mpg
Challenger Hellcat Redeye: 4,529 lbs, 14 mpg.

I'm not sure how the most powerful, heavy car got mpg as good as the ZLE and better than the GT500 - must have something to do with the gearing and some sort of fuel management strategy, but I'm just speculating.

I do find it funny that everyone keeps talking about how heavy the GT500 is (I understand the base model is about 80 lbs heavier than the CFTP, just like the ZL1 A10 is heavier than the ZLE version), when in CFTP vs ZLE, they are only 173 lbs difference (4059 vs 3886 lbs). Yes, it's heavier than the ZLE, but it's no Hellcat.

Not for nothing, but I'd gladly take 1 mpg less for a 132 mph trap speed in the CFTP over the ZLE's 124 mph with the A10. Not to mention the CFTP hit 160 mph in 18.1 sec vs the ZLE 23.6 sec.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

People complaining about the fuel efficiency of a factory 760 hp car? Grasping at straws. Anyway, C&D tested the ZLE vs GT500 CFTP vs Challenger Hellcat Redeye:

Actually nobody is complaining about the fuel efficiency. If you read and understood the comments (you didn't), you would have saw that what we're talking about is the size of the fuel tank. Where the competing cars have 19+ gallon tanks the GT500 has like a 17 gallon tank which is significant in a car as portly as the GT500 is. Get your facts straight.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

ZLE: 3,886 lbs; 14 mpg
GT500 CFTP: 4,059 lbs (not the 4225 lbs that everyone keeps incorrectly quoting) and 13 mpg
Challenger Hellcat Redeye: 4,529 lbs, 14 mpg.

Regardless of what your magazine claims, there have been several complaints that the GT500 barely makes 1 lap on some tracks on a full tank. Whereas the ZL1 and ZLE can make several laps. So maybe C&D tested the cars going at 50 MPH in top gear or something. Who knows? Who cares? Fact is when these cars are driven daily under normal conditions the GT500 will get significantly less miles per tank than a ZL1 or HC. Several GT500 owners have already mentioned that they have to make frequent gas station stops.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I'm not sure how the most powerful, heavy car got mpg as good as the ZLE and better than the GT500 - must have something to do with the gearing and some sort of fuel management strategy, but I'm just speculating.

Or maybe they built the car correctly whereas Ford had to do a rush job on the GT500. This all goes back to those conversations we had way back when about how Ford had to re-do other stuff (GT350, PP2) which is probably what cut into the time they had to develop the GT500 properly. Because a lot of this stuff that we keep talking about with the GT500 is sounding like it is a very undercooked turkey.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I do find it funny that everyone keeps talking about how heavy the GT500 is (I understand the base model is about 80 lbs heavier than the CFTP, just like the ZL1 A10 is heavier than the ZLE version), when in CFTP vs ZLE, they are only 173 lbs difference (4059 vs 3886 lbs). Yes, it's heavier than the ZLE, but it's no Hellcat.

Well when these are "track cars" and one is 173 pounds heavier and all that weight is on the nose then that kinda makes a big difference. Especially when the GT500 roasts the tires after 1 lap, burns thru the fuel tank in one lap, voids the warranty just for taking it on the track in the first place, and has a much steeper price. Again, it isn't just one issue with the GT500. It is several issues which we first starting hearing about when they first started to release the specs. The ZLE will destroy the GT500 in any configuration on the track. And it has way better options and costs much less.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Not for nothing, but I'd gladly take 1 mpg less for a 132 mph trap speed in the CFTP over the ZLE's 124 mph with the A10. Not to mention the CFTP hit 160 mph in 18.1 sec vs the ZLE 23.6 sec.

Yea let us know when you get your $90K GT500 bro.