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Old 08-28-2017, 11:22 PM   #43
TheShooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampslife View Post
The ZL1 is overall a better car even though it does not have as much HP as the Hellcat I would take a ZL1 over a Hellcat any day.


ZL1 has awful back seats and a tiny trunk. It's HALF a car. Visibility remains poor. Fit and finish is variable at best.

Hellcat gives you a whole car, but costs you in weight. In spite of a good suspension, the Hellcat feels like a boat.

Saying the ZL1 is a better car is pretty silly when both cars have serious shortcomings for many drivers.

I own a Charger Hellcat...and am getting the ZL1. As I've said before, that gets the best of both worlds. I like driving whole car that isn't a SUV. To put that in perspective, our Hellcat replaced a Grand Cherokee Overland and it's nearly as practical! The ZL1 is a toy by comparison and only for weekend drives. So which is the better car? I can easily prove that my new Mercedes SUV is better than either.

Depends on what you need and want.


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Old 08-28-2017, 11:43 PM   #44
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Both awesome cars and wildly different from one another despite the architectural similarities. I've had the Hellcat for 2.5y now and it's the best daily I've ever had. Just got the ZL1. Hellcat is both more usable and feels faster. ZL1 is a toy. I highly recommend having one of each.
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:51 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by TheShooter View Post
ZL1 has awful back seats and a tiny trunk. It's HALF a car. Visibility remains poor. Fit and finish is variable at best.

Hellcat gives you a whole car, but costs you in weight. In spite of a good suspension, the Hellcat feels like a boat.

Saying the ZL1 is a better car is pretty silly when both cars have serious shortcomings for many drivers.

I own a Charger Hellcat...and am getting the ZL1. As I've said before, that gets the best of both worlds. I like driving whole car that isn't a SUV. To put that in perspective, our Hellcat replaced a Grand Cherokee Overland and it's nearly as practical! The ZL1 is a toy by comparison and only for weekend drives. So which is the better car? I can easily prove that my new Mercedes SUV is better than either.

Depends on what you need and want.


R
To be fair, he is simply pointing out what many HC owners feel about their particular car...that he thinks the ZL1 is better. As an all around, all purpose, do-everything-well car, the ZL1 IS the better car from a performance standpoint when both cars are stock. It'll hang with the HC in a roll-on, it is faster in the quarter mile (stock cars stock tires), it handles much better, etc. When mods are added but limiting yourself to the stock blower, the HC will walk away from the ZL1 in a straight line. And I think the same can be said until you start getting into heavy builds. At that point the weight and size advantage the ZL1 enjoys would play a part. So I don't think he was throwing a diss at the HC. He was just expressing what he thinks.

As far as visibility is concerned...I've said it time and again that with blind spot indicators visibility is not an issue. I could bring you along with me and you'd be surprised at how well I could zip in and out of traffic. I've played cat and mouse with plenty of cars on a backed up GSP plenty of mornings on my way home from work. It takes a combination of awareness, blind spot monitoring, and anticipating where other cars should be. If you can do all of that well and take quick glances when unsure as well as having great reflexes, then you won't have any issues at all. I swear I sometimes get on the GSP purposely just to add some excitement to my commute.

And rear seats, well that is a given. These cars are not made to fully utilize the rear seats. Nobody buys these cars with the thought that they'll be carting around 3 other people on a daily basis. In 5 years of owning my 5th Gen SS, I have had a person in my back seat less than 3 times. And only 1 of those times I can recall right now. I'd have to think about the other two to remember them. If I was gonna have people in my car, I would not have bought even the Challenger HC. I would have bought the Charger HC. But as it is my cars are perfect for me.

GM had a clear purpose for the ZL1. And they built it around that. If they added more trunk space or more room, then it would have sacrificed weight and performance. We can't have it both ways. And for me, I'd rather have the performance and sacrifice the room than the other way around. I don't need trunk space because I hardly ever use the trunk anyway.

The fit and finish of both of these cars are on the same level. I cannot find any evidence that either car has a better quality fit and finish over the other. But for what they are and the performance you get and what you pay for, the fit and finish is fine enough for me.

I think you really need to go ahead and get the ZL1 and see how well it performs in order to appreciate it. You'll see how awesome of a car it really is. But you can't go into it comparing it to the HC because they both were built for different purposes. Go into it thinking about what GM built it for and how well it is at what it was built for. Because some of your comparisons about the ZL1 would be similar to someone criticizing the HC for not being able to corner well when it wasn't built for that. Get one and you'll see how good it is.
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:58 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by JB'sZL1 View Post
Nor I. The HC's prices have increased, not the Zl1's (or barely). My '13 sold for 63k, and many buyers are getting their new Z's in the mid 60's. The redesign allows for better trans (A10), skidpad, times, interior creature comforts, more safety features, etc. That's not a bad thing.

There may be a rare few that paid msrp on their '17 Z, but I think most received some form of discount(s).
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I don't get this statement. The ZL1 is less expensive than a Hellcat. I thought they were priced right at introduction, but with the big 2016 price increase I actually think the Cats are overpriced for what they are. I traded my 2016 Hellcat Challenger for my ZL1, by the way. It is indeed an awesome car, that did exactly what Dodge said it would, but I feel no regrets since trading.
I wasn't comparing the price of the HC to the price of the ZL1. I'm simply stating that both companies have different ways to keep the costs of their cars low. Yes the HC is more expensive than the ZL1. But look at the engine alone. The HC engine costs $21,000 while the LT4 is $13,000. That is an $8,000 difference just between the engines. And the HC engine with stock blower and just bolt-ons can make way more power than the LT4. But getting back to the point, Dodge uses their own way to keep costs down just like GM does. That is what I was saying.

Plus if you're talking about bare bones ZL1s then I can agree that there is a significant price difference against a bare bones HC. But once you add options the ZL1 gets quite close. Mine was $69,400 MSRP with the options I wanted. My HC was like $70K MSRP with the options I wanted. But if the HC had the A8 then it would have been a bit more. These cars are closer in price than you realize.
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Old 08-29-2017, 02:07 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by JB'sZL1 View Post
For some reason all HC discussions are invariably directed at times from a dig or a roll...and hp...and nothing else.

They are never directed at track or touring discussions. I have read no less then 10 times the HC does what is was expressly intended to do (go fast in a straight line). As if the Z does not do its (triple threat) job at the strip, track or while touring. Huh.
I think it's a given that the HC has no chance on a road course or on a track. So if I say "hey guys I was on a road course and whupped a Hellcat", nobody would be surprised. Kinda like Mayweather beating McGregor...it was expected. However a roll-on or a drag race is more exciting because that is one area where it could go either way. So if I say "hey guys I did a 40 roll against a Challenger Hellcat and we were dead even", well that would be quite exciting. So it isn't really that we're ignoring the ZL1's strengths and playing to the HC's strengths while ignoring the HC's weaknesses and exploiting the ZL1's weakness. It's more that a straight line race is a level battle field and a road course is pretty much not even worth talking about.
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Old 08-29-2017, 02:25 AM   #48
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Both cars are amazing in there own right. I've had a lot of 5th Gen Camaro's 1LE & ZL1, and I've had the Challenger Hellcat (just sold last week) for about 2.5 years since its release. Its definitely a drivers race in whichever car your in. I will say, I'm looking forward to potentially owning a ZL1/1LE, but I'm definitely going to do some research on what car I'm wanting to get and the list includes a Widebody HC, GT-R. I'm deploying next month for about 7 months so when I come back I'll make my decision then.

Something about a Summit White ZL1/1LE just screams buy me. The only thing I wouldn't want to deal with is the amount of room. I'm 6'2, 235lbs. The HC just fit me and had the instant power to match.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:51 AM   #49
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Dodge is too unreliable to even consider.
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:27 AM   #50
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Lol at Hellcat vs ZL1 arguments. Hellcat can’t even compare. It’s a big boat that does one thing well, going fast in a straight line. Wake up MOPAR people. This ZL1 is on another level and designed with Ferraris, Lambos, and Vipers as competitors. It’d be funny to watch a Challenger try to take on the Nuremburg Ring and crash out of the first tight turn.
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:31 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by FringBirdAloha View Post
Lol at Hellcat vs ZL1 arguments. Hellcat canít even compare. Itís a big boat that does one thing well, going fast in a straight line. Wake up MOPAR people. This ZL1 is on another level and designed with Ferraris, Lambos, and Vipers as competitors. Itíd be funny to watch a Challenger try to take on the Nuremburg Ring and crash out of the first tight turn.
LMAO 😂😂😂
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:52 AM   #52
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Itíd be funny to watch a Challenger try to take on the Nuremburg Ring and crash out of the first tight turn.
Hehehe
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:34 PM   #53
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If my ZL1 wasn't a 3rd vehicle at my house (toy), and I had to daily, then Charger HC is what I'd drive. A family sedan that hauls ass. And cheaper than CTS-V.
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:18 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FringBirdAloha View Post
Lol at Hellcat vs ZL1 arguments. Hellcat can’t even compare. It’s a big boat that does one thing well, going fast in a straight line. Wake up MOPAR people. This ZL1 is on another level and designed with Ferraris, Lambos, and Vipers as competitors. It’d be funny to watch a Challenger try to take on the Nuremburg Ring and crash out of the first tight turn.
According to the feedback provided from HC owners in these recent treads, the HC is unsafe, even in a straight line, with the stock tires. I even read that with its lack of down-force, beyond 150 mph it "is more than a tad scary". So even the straight line has limits.
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:25 PM   #55
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If my ZL1 wasn't a 3rd vehicle at my house (toy), and I had to daily, then Charger HC is what I'd drive. A family sedan that hauls ass. And cheaper than CTS-V.
Or a SS.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:29 PM   #56
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According to the feedback provided from HC owners in these recent treads, the HC is unsafe, even in a straight line, with the stock tires. I even read that with its lack of down-force, beyond 150 mph it "is more than a tad scary". So even the straight line has limits.
I haven't heard any Hellcat owners I know personally say that. They all state the opposite actually so forgive me, but I question that statement.

Skip to 1:01:00 in this video. Long as hell video, I know, but the part where Carlos talks about the Hellcat and what it felt like at high speeds only takes a minute or so.


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