[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by birdmanf16

So here are the results of my experiment. Not really apples to apples comparison, but I got a good idea based on this test.
1. Best time is still PTM race, but it was on new tires, cool day first session, and new brakes. 1:48.66
2. Next best was comp mode: First session, 2nd track day on the tires. 1:49.25
3. All nannies off....on Track mode and pushed for 5 seconds on TC button. 2nd session, tires getting tired and hotter track temps. 1:50.00.
Based on the variables above, and the feel for the car. My bet is all nannies off would be fastest with cool temps, open track, new brakes and new tires. It is also the most fun setting and the car is very manageable and predictable! Give it a shot, you will like it.

Keep in mind that such qualities as throttle and brake modulation and driver discipline vary rather widely from one individual to another. Then there's matters of comfort level/risk tolerance and venue-specific challenges.

That's the view from tracking a car with no stability control whatsoever and traction control that's utterly worthless.


Norm

[Homeless Junkie]

Thanks for all the advice. Sorry for the hijack.

I ran in Track mode and pushed the TC off when I ran an auto cross course. It was fun but rear end broke out a couple times. I also spun a lot. It was easy to correct but aren’t ready for that doing 80 mph. Sonoma’s not that forgiving either. One day I’ll go down the list and try all TC settings.

[TrackClub]

3

Originally Posted by Homeless Junkie

Thanks for all the advice. Sorry for the hijack.

I ran in Track mode and pushed the TC off when I ran an auto cross course. It was fun but rear end broke out a couple times. I also spun a lot. It was easy to correct but aren’t ready for that doing 80 mph. Sonoma’s not that forgiving either. One day I’ll go down the list and try all TC settings.

Trying all off as you have done at an autox course is an excellent way to get accustomed to FEEL the car in a relatively safe setting. Dont give up on it. An ability to feel what the car is doing balance and grip wise is absolutely key to going fast. Having said that, this requires seat time and learning until such skill becomes subconscious and allows for proactive driver corrections to avoid spins.

By all means it is good to retain nannies, especially at a challenging track with possible consequences when learning, or simply by choice - to have a wider safety net.
However, if i may suggest, you should probably try PTM Sport 1, as the car will still have both Stabilitrack and TC, yet both will be calibrated for track duty. If you just select Track for suspension, their calibration will be very intrusive and the car will feel very different and not in a good way.

Also, the car feels quite different in PTM Sport 1 vs Race. Without Stabilitrak its rotation ability and sense of balance are significantly different and it is useful to experience both (at a safe venue where having "oh shit moment" wont end in tears).

Bottom line, at some point you'll have to decide which way to go: stabiliy control nanny or not. Much may depend on how many events you do per season, as it is next to impossible to learn feeling the car doing 5 or 6 track days per year. And/or, your personal appetite for maximizing pace vs keeping risk to manageable level.
Both are absolutely correct, but they do require different learning paths. One is much longer than the other

PS earlier on you had posted about ZL1 1LE wheels and tires. G3Rs are like DOT slicks. You will have MUCH more success (and less risk) learning on regular G3s, which are very fast tire already and on par (if not better) with older R comp tires. Plus they are cheaper and last much longer

[mlee]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

3

Trying all off as you have done at an autox course is an excellent way to get accustomed to FEEL the car in a relatively safe setting. Dont give up on it. An ability to feel what the car is doing balance and grip wise is absolutely key to going fast. Having said that, this requires seat time and learning until such skill becomes subconscious and allows for proactive driver corrections to avoid spins.

By all means it is good to retain nannies, especially at a challenging track with possible consequences when learning, or simply by choice - to have a wider safety net.
However, if i may suggest, you should probably try PTM Sport 1, as the car will still have both Stabilitrack and TC, yet both will be calibrated for track duty. If you just select Track for suspension, their calibration will be very intrusive and the car will feel very different and not in a good way.

Also, the car feels quite different in PTM Sport 1 vs Race. Without Stabilitrak its rotation ability and sense of balance are significantly different and it is useful to experience both (at a safe venue where having "oh shit moment" wont end in tears).

Bottom line, at some point you'll have to decide which way to go: stabiliy control nanny or not. Much may depend on how many events you do per season, as it is next to impossible to learn feeling the car doing 5 or 6 track days per year. And/or, your personal appetite for maximizing pace vs keeping risk to manageable level.
Both are absolutely correct, but they do require different learning paths. One is much longer than the other

PS earlier on you had posted about ZL1 1LE wheels and tires. G3Rs are like DOT slicks. You will have MUCH more success (and less risk) learning on regular G3s, which are very fast tire already and on par (if not better) with older R comp tires. Plus they are cheaper and last much longer

Great Post... top to bottom...

I always start out my day in Sport 1 and feel my way up from there. G3Rs are awesome after you get a couple laps in them which is another good reason for Sport 1 early on.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

it is next to impossible to learn feeling the car doing 5 or 6 track days per year.

More days per year definitely helps with lap times but I think it is very possible to get a good feel for the car with 5-6 track days per year, especially if you have been on track in another car before getting the Camaro.

[Badmojo]

I normally drive in Sport 1 on the street and had the chance to do some high speed mountain curves last weekend. I run in PTM Race at the track. I was shocked at how intrusive Sport 1 was and I had a little rear brake squeak to let me know when it was kicking in. It was constantly coming in.



I also don't recommend turning it off until you are ready. Just realize it is going to do it's job even if you don't want it to.

Originally Posted by TrackClub

3

Trying all off as you have done at an autox course is an excellent way to get accustomed to FEEL the car in a relatively safe setting. Dont give up on it. An ability to feel what the car is doing balance and grip wise is absolutely key to going fast. Having said that, this requires seat time and learning until such skill becomes subconscious and allows for proactive driver corrections to avoid spins.

By all means it is good to retain nannies, especially at a challenging track with possible consequences when learning, or simply by choice - to have a wider safety net.
However, if i may suggest, you should probably try PTM Sport 1, as the car will still have both Stabilitrack and TC, yet both will be calibrated for track duty. If you just select Track for suspension, their calibration will be very intrusive and the car will feel very different and not in a good way.

Also, the car feels quite different in PTM Sport 1 vs Race. Without Stabilitrak its rotation ability and sense of balance are significantly different and it is useful to experience both (at a safe venue where having "oh shit moment" wont end in tears).

Bottom line, at some point you'll have to decide which way to go: stabiliy control nanny or not. Much may depend on how many events you do per season, as it is next to impossible to learn feeling the car doing 5 or 6 track days per year. And/or, your personal appetite for maximizing pace vs keeping risk to manageable level.
Both are absolutely correct, but they do require different learning paths. One is much longer than the other

PS earlier on you had posted about ZL1 1LE wheels and tires. G3Rs are like DOT slicks. You will have MUCH more success (and less risk) learning on regular G3s, which are very fast tire already and on par (if not better) with older R comp tires. Plus they are cheaper and last much longer

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by mlee

Great Post... top to bottom...

I always start out my day in Sport 1 and feel my way up from there. G3Rs are awesome after you get a couple laps in them which is another good reason for Sport 1 early on.

Thank you sir! Bottom line, whatever makes us "fast"
I do use Sport 1 in wet conditions at tracks of consequence as losing the rear at circa 100 mph turns in such conditions would likely be beyond my talent (and frankly i dont want to find out lol). But at smaller tracks i do prefer PTM Race regardless of conditions. Also in the dry, i prefer to start with PTM Race as i want to feel when the tires come in so i can start to push. But, your way of doing things clearly has merit and frankly, it is just great that GM has such superb tools for our disposal! Cheers!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

More days per year definitely helps with lap times but I think it is very possible to get a good feel for the car with 5-6 track days per year, especially if you have been on track in another car before getting the Camaro.

Good feel for the car: yes! Ability to feel the car in order to subconsciously correct its balance going 10/10ths: no! (unless somebody is an old pro with hundreds of days on track in the past, or regularly drives a sim). Simply, our brains need a lot more repetitive learning patterns to develop automatic responses (this is true for any sport where success vs failure depends on proper execution of complex subconcious responses).

Hence, again, big kudos to GM for PTM, as there is a mode for everyone. Cheers!

[mlee]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Thank you sir! Bottom line, whatever makes us "fast"
I do use Sport 1 in wet conditions at tracks of consequence as losing the rear at circa 100 mph turns in such conditions would likely be beyond my talent (and frankly i dont want to find out lol). But at smaller tracks i do prefer PTM Race regardless of conditions. Also in the dry, i prefer to start with PTM Race as i want to feel when the tires come in so i can start to push. But, your way of doing things clearly has merit and frankly, it is just great that GM has such superb tools for our disposal! Cheers!

Yes, track size (speeds) makes a difference. Also, on our track running CCW vs CW a concrete wall comes into play in the CCW direction. I don't want to find out about that so my lap times are no doubt faster in the CW direction where it's wide open.

[Harpinc]

Everything off..

[Homeless Junkie]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

3

Trying all off as you have done at an autox course is an excellent way to get accustomed to FEEL the car in a relatively safe setting. Dont give up on it. An ability to feel what the car is doing balance and grip wise is absolutely key to going fast. Having said that, this requires seat time and learning until such skill becomes subconscious and allows for proactive driver corrections to avoid spins.

By all means it is good to retain nannies, especially at a challenging track with possible consequences when learning, or simply by choice - to have a wider safety net.
However, if i may suggest, you should probably try PTM Sport 1, as the car will still have both Stabilitrack and TC, yet both will be calibrated for track duty. If you just select Track for suspension, their calibration will be very intrusive and the car will feel very different and not in a good way.

Also, the car feels quite different in PTM Sport 1 vs Race. Without Stabilitrak its rotation ability and sense of balance are significantly different and it is useful to experience both (at a safe venue where having "oh shit moment" wont end in tears).

Bottom line, at some point you'll have to decide which way to go: stabiliy control nanny or not. Much may depend on how many events you do per season, as it is next to impossible to learn feeling the car doing 5 or 6 track days per year. And/or, your personal appetite for maximizing pace vs keeping risk to manageable level.
Both are absolutely correct, but they do require different learning paths. One is much longer than the other

PS earlier on you had posted about ZL1 1LE wheels and tires. G3Rs are like DOT slicks. You will have MUCH more success (and less risk) learning on regular G3s, which are very fast tire already and on par (if not better) with older R comp tires. Plus they are cheaper and last much longer

Thanks for the information. I’ve done 5 days so far with a couple more coming up. I’m not sure if I’m going to get serious yet. If I keep working in San Francisco I’ve got some ideas on the works. I do enjoy passing other similar housepower cars so I figure it’s time to try something a little less antrusive.

Interesting. Please go into more detail on the benefits of the G3. All the instructors at Simraceway advise to stay with the 3Rs. They tell me the tires were designed for the car. I’ll have to try the 3s and see for myself.

[Homeless Junkie]

Originally Posted by mlee

Great Post... top to bottom...

I always start out my day in Sport 1 and feel my way up from there. G3Rs are awesome after you get a couple laps in them which is another good reason for Sport 1 early on.

I take it easy the first lap of every session. Once they’re warm they really stick and are silent.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Homeless Junkie

I take it easy the first lap of every session. Once they’re warm they really stick and are silent.

Exactly... the 3r is an awesome track tire. Then get them to warm on the DIC and let the G's rise.

I run PS4 in autoX simply because they don't allow the G3R.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

More days per year definitely helps with lap times but I think it is very possible to get a good feel for the car with 5-6 track days per year, especially if you have been on track in another car before getting the Camaro.

Better still - at least for the short run - might be if you can crowd those 5-6 track days into a 3-4 month span.


Norm