[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

LS7 issues are with the valve guides and I would be making sure those are taken care of right away if i go that route.

And honestly, though i love my car i miss a manual obviously (even though it's slower), and-being smaller and lighter like my old C5Z (which translates into consumables being way less money). Also I hate that it is Yellow and I have had loads of heat related problems being forced induction.

Still a good chance I'll be sticking with it, because I'm just not into throwing money away and it's a great car, so the C6Z will have to be the right deal/time/level of prep.

Well, looks like some great suggestions above to battle the heat. This forum is just friggin awesome even if threads get hijacked lol

As to the LS7: i have 3 buds who have lost motors before putting Aviaid dry sumps. All in long high G corners. None after and they are going on over a decade now. I know that valve guides got tons of attention in many Forum threads, but imo that's inconclusive and all i can go by is first hand info (also supported by my mechanic, who is a GM certified Grand Master Mechanic and an ex Grand Am championship winning crew chief). Just a data point fyi, that's all. Cheers!

[h018871]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Remove the plastic trim in the area of the green boxes to expose more of the cooler to airflow.

I need to look at that, thx for sharing

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Well, looks like some great suggestions above to battle the heat. This forum is just friggin awesome even if threads get hijacked lol

As to the LS7: i have 3 buds who have lost motors before putting Aviaid dry sumps. All in long high G corners. None after and they are going on over a decade now. I know that valve guides got tons of attention in many Forum threads, but imo that's inconclusive and all i can go by is first hand info (also supported by my mechanic, who is a GM certified Grand Master Mechanic and an ex Grand Am championship winning crew chief). Just a data point fyi, that's all. Cheers!

Agreed, this is now a great cooling thread! haha I might be adding some custom venting to my front bumper. The price + paint for a ZLE front bumper seems very high and I can't get over the fact that the larger bottom ZL1 grille seems to be the wrong spot for a bigger opening. The crash bar is taking up that entire area that is opened up bigger than the SS grille. Though uglier i think the 2019+ SS bumper is a better design for cooling airflow. The top grille is bigger and the bottom grille is open all the way across to both auxiliary radiators. OOO lightbulb, maybe someone would want to swap front ends??? Wait they don't even make bright yellow in 2019+ do they?

Good to know about the dry sump. I thought the stock LS7 dry sump was more reliable than wet sumps on track?

Originally Posted by h018871

I need to look at that, thx for sharing

Me too, thanks Travis!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Agreed, this is now a great cooling thread! haha I might be adding some custom venting to my front bumper. The price + paint for a ZLE front bumper seems very high and I can't get over the fact that the larger bottom ZL1 grille seems to be the wrong spot for a bigger opening. The crash bar is taking up that entire area that is opened up bigger than the SS grille. Though uglier i think the 2019+ SS bumper is a better design for cooling airflow. The top grille is bigger and the bottom grille is open all the way across to both auxiliary radiators. OOO lightbulb, maybe someone would want to swap front ends??? Wait they don't even make bright yellow in 2019+ do they?

Good to know about the dry sump. I thought the stock LS7 dry sump was more reliable than wet sumps on track?


Me too, thanks Travis!

Yep, i like the revised F end of an SS 1LE as well. Black may look alright on a yellow car

Stock dry sumps have been known to cause oil tank cavitations in LS7 plus oil pan is not the best design for high Gs pick up especially in sustained L handers.
The folks i have mentioned make special inserts to combat those conditions. A defo must have imo (for both LS7 and LS3 track going motors). As much as valve guides have been thought of as the culprits, many think it is lack of lubrication that causes excessive heat and wear..and hence the root cause.
Personally that's why i prefer an LT1 design simplicity wise and not aware of anyone losing one due to oiling issues yet - even running slicks. GM did a fabulous job here! Cheers!

[yourmomshouse]

It seems like all of the above is applicable to aggressive tires. I drive my car fast in the canyons, but don't track. I have a 2016 SS, MRC, and 275 front 305 rear UHP all seasons. Summer tires are not an option. I feel like my turn in is slow. There's a delay from when I turn the wheel to when the car actually turns in. I will change the fronts to a 285 when after the tire gets low on tread. Until then would it be advisable to put in a front Hotchkis in the softest setting, bmr endlinks and bmr springs? The end goal is to get all the bmr arms in the rear as well as springs and sway bar. I'm doing headers soon, and I thought it'd be convenient to do the front suspension to deal with the laggy turn in while I'm at it. $4-500 in parts for the front isn't too bad. I can't cough up the full $2k plus right now for the whole BMR setup in the rear.

[Baddawg53]

Originally Posted by yourmomshouse

It seems like all of the above is applicable to aggressive tires. I drive my car fast in the canyons, but don't track. I have a 2016 SS, MRC, and 275 front 305 rear UHP all seasons. Summer tires are not an option. I feel like my turn in is slow. There's a delay from when I turn the wheel to when the car actually turns in. I will change the fronts to a 285 when after the tire gets low on tread. Until then would it be advisable to put in a front Hotchkis in the softest setting, bmr endlinks and bmr springs? The end goal is to get all the bmr arms in the rear as well as springs and sway bar. I'm doing headers soon, and I thought it'd be convenient to do the front suspension to deal with the laggy turn in while I'm at it. $4-500 in parts for the front isn't too bad. I can't cough up the full $2k plus right now for the whole BMR setup in the rear.

I can only speak from experience on one thing here. The switch from summer only high performance tires to all season tires gave me the steering response you are speaking of. The delay in response was huge between the two. Within a day I was back at the tire shop getting summer tires put back on. The all seasons were highly recommended on this forum, but they definitely did not fit my driving style and expectations from the car.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by yourmomshouse

It seems like all of the above is applicable to aggressive tires. I drive my car fast in the canyons, but don't track. I have a 2016 SS, MRC, and 275 front 305 rear UHP all seasons. Summer tires are not an option. I feel like my turn in is slow. There's a delay from when I turn the wheel to when the car actually turns in. I will change the fronts to a 285 when after the tire gets low on tread. Until then would it be advisable to put in a front Hotchkis in the softest setting, bmr endlinks and bmr springs? The end goal is to get all the bmr arms in the rear as well as springs and sway bar. I'm doing headers soon, and I thought it'd be convenient to do the front suspension to deal with the laggy turn in while I'm at it. $4-500 in parts for the front isn't too bad. I can't cough up the full $2k plus right now for the whole BMR setup in the rear.

You're doing headers, but summer tires are not an option? Hmmm...why not?!
Softer front ARB may make things a bit better turn in wise (all other things being left the same), but i am saying this not knowing how you brake, or turn the wheel, etc. Basically, the more aggressive your driving, the easier it will be to overload the tires, especially ones NOT designed for such loads.
I would definitely NOT put any suspension pieces that would stiffen it, or reduce its travel, as that would rob the tires of already limited grip. That includes springs, etc. Basically, if you stiffen things up while running sub par tires, you'll make things worse vs better.
Most aftermarket suspension parts are made for running aggressive tires, so keep that in mind before emptying your wallet. Cheers!

[yourmomshouse]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

You're doing headers, but summer tires are not an option? Hmmm...why not?!
Softer front ARB may make things a bit better turn in wise (all other things being left the same), but i am saying this not knowing how you brake, or turn the wheel, etc. Basically, the more aggressive your driving, the easier it will be to overload the tires, especially ones NOT designed for such loads.
I would definitely NOT put any suspension pieces that would stiffen it, or reduce its travel, as that would rob the tires of already limited grip. That includes springs, etc. Basically, if you stiffen things up while running sub par tires, you'll make things worse vs better.
Most aftermarket suspension parts are made for running aggressive tires, so keep that in mind before emptying your wallet. Cheers!

Thanks. That's what I was assuming. I live in nyc. Space is limited. I would get a sporty winter beater before getting a second set of wheels and paying $100 a month to store them.
Im riding on oem zl1 wheels right now. I thought about putting summer tires on these at the time of purchase and winter tires on the stock SS 5 spokes, but couldn't get myself to pay $1,200 for storage, so I gave the old wheels away.

I guess sway bars are out of the question for all season tires.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by yourmomshouse

Thanks. That's what I was assuming. I live in nyc. Space is limited. I would get a sporty winter beater before getting a second set of wheels and paying $100 a month to store them.
Im riding on oem zl1 wheels right now. I thought about putting summer tires on these at the time of purchase and winter tires on the stock SS 5 spokes, but couldn't get myself to pay $1,200 for storage, so I gave the old wheels away.

I guess sway bars are out of the question for all season tires.

I understand your dilemma fully now. I used to be a frequent visitor to NYC: my fave town

I think you could benefit from softer front ARBs (aka sways), as by design that would increase front grip, by increasing (proly very slightly) the roll factor and hence slowing down the weight transfer. At the very least, it may be worth a try imo. Worst case you can sell them on the Forum. But, i would under no circumstances stiffen the springs, or install any parts that limit suspension travel (per my previous note), as that would be counterproductive with low grip tires. Good luck and cheers!

Edit: another thing to do is be as smooth dialing the steering lock as possible on turn in. Slow hands and the least steering input the better (goes for all tires).

[yourmomshouse]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

I understand your dilemma fully now. I used to be a frequent visitor to NYC: my fave town

I think you could benefit from softer front ARBs (aka sways), as by design that would increase front grip, by increasing (proly very slightly) the roll factor and hence slowing down the weight transfer. At the very least, it may be worth a try imo. Worst case you can sell them on the Forum. But, i would under no circumstances stiffen the springs, or install any parts that limit suspension travel (per my previous note), as that would be counterproductive with low grip tires. Good luck and cheers!

Edit: another thing to do is be as smooth dialing the steering lock as possible on turn in. Slow hands and the least steering input the better (goes for all tires).

Isn't a softer bar counterproductive to what I'm trying to accomplish, which is decreasing the delay in turn-in? I have conti dws06 tires up front with only about 5k miles on them and I'm thinking about switching those out for michelin AS4. I might go with the FE4 bar and control arms with bmr end links.
I've got 3 weeks to make a decision because that's how long Swain Tech is gonna take for the header coating.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by yourmomshouse

Isn't a softer bar counterproductive to what I'm trying to accomplish, which is decreasing the delay in turn-in? I have conti dws06 tires up front with only about 5k miles on them and I'm thinking about switching those out for michelin AS4. I might go with the FE4 bar and control arms with bmr end links.
I've got 3 weeks to make a decision because that's how long Swain Tech is gonna take for the header coating.

Well, it all depends on what's happening. I suspect the low grip tire gets overwhelmed on turn in and slides too much before the car takes set. And that's why you have a delay. This would be consistent with that delay going away with stickier tire, as reported by others in this thread.

If you stiffen the front bar this condition will become even more pronounced, as the tire will get loaded even faster (and slide even more). Keep in mind, while a stiffer front ARB will load the tire faster, it will only produce a faster response if the tire has sufficient grip to start with. This may work if one switches to grippier tires (like slicks) to take advantage of their higher grip levels, but would be counterproductive with harder tire.

Softer ARB will always produce more grip, by design.
Stiffer ARB will reduce grip, by design. Again, this may provide some advantage in response time vs grip if the tire is sufficiently grippy (like slicks). But not the other way around when one runs tires with less grip vs those originally intended for the suspension design. A good example would be racing in wet conditions, when rear ARB can get completely removed, to soften the rear to the max and provide max grip there, to avoid oversteer.

Keep in mind, that (after market marketing aside), any pro team will run as soft a suspension as they can get away with, to provide as much mechanical grip as possible. Of course, a race car will be sprung much stiffer, as it runs full slicks and tons of aero, which provides tires with even more grip due to downforce and also requires a stable platform to take full advantage of aerodynamics. But that's not our design

Bottom line IMO: going with grippier tires can afford one stiffening things up a bit to take advantage of the extra tire grip by making transitions faster, while not increasing understeer any (hopefully). But, when going with less grippy tires, one should soften the end that produces a problem, to gain more mechanical grip there. So, faster response will only happen if the tire is capable of dealing with faster load transfer from a stiffer suspension. In your case, the result will be the opposite as you'd be further reducing mechanical grip in the front (which is sliding too much already).

And that's my 2 cents Cheers!

PS I am not gonna comment on your control arms and links, other than to repeat what i had said before: the less grippy tire, the more compliance you want out of the suspension, lest you will overwhelm the tires with too fast a loading factor and lose overall grip as a consequence.

[TrackClub]

Another tip: change ONE thing (my suggestion would be a front ARB) and see what results you get.
Of you switch up a few things at the same time, you will have no idea what produced what results (either for the better, or the reverse), while having spent more money.

[TheRealJA105]

I agree with TC 100% here. Do not stiffen any part of the suspension when you have downgraded the tires. Tires are the most important piece of the handling puzzle.

[apexit53]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Another tip: change ONE thing (my suggestion would be a front ARB) and see what results you get.
Of you switch up a few things at the same time, you will have no idea what produced what results (either for the better, or the reverse), while having spent more money.

thats the exact reason i do a few events on my stock bar before switching to a new one. IF you dont know how the car feels at the limit you wont know what your change will or how it affected the car.