[2SS Capt]

Originally Posted by Eric10905

No worries. Line replacement and bleeding is easy. If you don't already have something, I recommend a bleeding tool such as Motive. I use the dry method since I bleed and change fluid a lot for track use. There's some step by steps on here somewhere as well.

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

The Motive pressure bleeder is one of the best tools I bought. Easy one man bleeding. But don't put the fluid in the Motive. Just keep adding to the reservoir. Don't let it run dry. Keep checking the level.

You may need to do an ABS solenoid bleed procedure. There are some scan tools on Amazon that can do this.

Can you guys elaborate a little more on the "Dry Method" using the Motive Bleeder? It sounds like they say add fluid to the Motive reservoir but you guys are saying do not? What is the advantage of the "Dry Method"? (I'm guessing not having to clean the Motive tool of nasty brake fluid?)

Also, I have 3 liters of Castrol SRF Brake Fluid, I assume this should be more than enough (even considering I'm changing the brake lines)?

Thanks again for all the input and suggestions, this project will happen next week some time as my brother comes to town on Saturday and this will be one of our things to get done while he is here... (Something to hang out, catch up , drink some beers and do some car things together... Haven't seen him in over a year, so looking forward to it...)

[cdb95z28]

Yes, you can either add the brake fluid to the Motive or not. IMHO, cleaning the Motive of all brake fluid is the larger chore. While this may be an extreme thought, I treat fresh brake fluid as something that should be pure. Since I track my car I put a lot of effort in maintaining the brake fluid integrity. Chemicals used to clean the Motive may not be compatible with brake fluid or the Motive. Motive recommends denatured alcohol.

That being said, either way is acceptable, use your best judgement in choosing either putting the fluid in the Motive or not.

In the latter case, you would have to diligently keep an eye on your master cylinder (MC) so you do not run it dry. To begin, fill the MC with fresh fluid. Bleed the RR but take note of how much you are bleeding out. Do a little bit but then check your MC level. Release the Motive pressure and add more to the MC. Yes, this process takes more time and requires you to be very mindful of the MC level. I do mine this way. Be patient, never rush. Otherwise, no matter the job, you will make mistakes. Having that second set of eyes is good to keep the level topped of.


Proper sequence on the Gen6 is not the typical "furthest to closest to the MC".
RR, LF, LR, RF is the correct service manual procedure. You may have to do the procedure multiple times to gain a rock hard pedal.

3 liters of SRF is a good amount, even if you do a complete system flush. But you'll find you can breeze thru that amount quickly if you are chasing air and a soft pedal. Versus my previously owned Gen5 SS 1LE, I found the Gen6 a little more temperamental with respect to eliminating air. My car actually had air in the RF caliper from the factory!

When opening up the brake system there's always a chance that air will make its way back further than intended. I mentioned the ABS solenoid bleed procedure. If by chance air makes it way to the ABS module, there are two ways to push it out. One is to use a scan tool that performs the procedure. A dealer can do this or you can buy a scan too for relatively low cost. Maybe about $100-140 for a Foxwell. The Foxwell does lots of other things beyond code reading.

Another way is without a scan tool. This method requires driving the car. Pick a location with no traffic and about a 25mph speed limit. Dry pavement. Go out and repeatedly and heavily engage the ABS. You may already have a sense what kind of pedal effort it takes to engage the ABS. If there is air in the ABS module, engaging the ABS will cycle the solenoids and push out the air. Sometimes the pedal gets even softer but you will still have adequate braking. I have done this and it works very well. After 3 or 4 times of ABS engagement, go back and bleed again. You should see more air and the pedal should become rock hard. Be mindful of your surroundings and level of traction. Don't do it with other cars around. Safety is paramount. The low speeds will allow enough energy to be attained to successfully engage the ABS yet not create a hazard to yourself or others. Again, use your best judgement. Stay in control.


Once complete, torque your bleeders to spec. On my SS 1LE, this is 13-15 lbs/ft. Then you'll want to clean out the bleeders. Bleeders seal at the bottom, using a taper against the caliper. Once closed, the bleeder has a column of brake fluid with in them. You must remove this trapped fluid otherwise it will:
-absorb moisture over time and corrode the bleeder and bleeder threads. When the fluid starts to corrode the threads, the resulting corrosion acts as a thread locker and this is a reason that bleeders may break the next time they are loosened.
-or, leak out over the caliper, possibly destroying the finish.
I use wooden Q-tips for firearm cleaning. Regular personal hygiene Q tips will also work. I cut of the cotton tip off and insert the wooden part into the bleeder. Since this will push out the trapped fluid. have a rag ready to absorb the fluid as it pushes out of the bleeder. Do this a couple times to remove the excess.

[Eric10905]

^ Agree with what cdb said above.
Add another reason i do dry: First time I used my new Motive, there was some sort of elastomer grease (believe that was the source) that came out of the motive pump portion and contaminated all the fluid in the container.
After that and a replacement Motive bleeder, I only do dry.

3L is more than enough. Don't believe you should need too much out of the second unless you leave a lot on the floor/in the bleed bottles. ;-)

Edit:
Below is sound advice. Always release pressure from Motive before adding more fluid. Otherwise that stuff will go splattering everywhere if you try to release at MC cap (was in a rush once and made that mistake.....).

"Release the Motive pressure and add more to the MC. Yes, this process takes more time and requires you to be very mindful of the MC level. I do mine this way. Be patient, never rush."

[2SS Capt]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

Yes, you can either add the brake fluid to the Motive or not. IMHO, cleaning the Motive of all brake fluid is the larger chore. While this may be an extreme thought, I treat fresh brake fluid as something that should be pure. Since I track my car I put a lot of effort in maintaining the brake fluid integrity. Chemicals used to clean the Motive may not be compatible with brake fluid or the Motive. Motive recommends denatured alcohol.

That being said, either way is acceptable, use your best judgement in choosing either putting the fluid in the Motive or not.

In the latter case, you would have to diligently keep an eye on your master cylinder (MC) so you do not run it dry. To begin, fill the MC with fresh fluid. Bleed the RR but take note of how much you are bleeding out. Do a little bit but then check your MC level. Release the Motive pressure and add more to the MC. Yes, this process takes more time and requires you to be very mindful of the MC level. I do mine this way. Be patient, never rush. Otherwise, no matter the job, you will make mistakes. Having that second set of eyes is good to keep the level topped of.


Proper sequence on the Gen6 is not the typical "furthest to closest to the MC".
RR, LF, LR, RF is the correct service manual procedure. You may have to do the procedure multiple times to gain a rock hard pedal.

3 liters of SRF is a good amount, even if you do a complete system flush. But you'll find you can breeze thru that amount quickly if you are chasing air and a soft pedal. Versus my previously owned Gen5 SS 1LE, I found the Gen6 a little more temperamental with respect to eliminating air. My car actually had air in the RF caliper from the factory!

When opening up the brake system there's always a chance that air will make its way back further than intended. I mentioned the ABS solenoid bleed procedure. If by chance air makes it way to the ABS module, there are two ways to push it out. One is to use a scan tool that performs the procedure. A dealer can do this or you can buy a scan too for relatively low cost. Maybe about $100-140 for a Foxwell. The Foxwell does lots of other things beyond code reading.

Another way is without a scan tool. This method requires driving the car. Pick a location with no traffic and about a 25mph speed limit. Dry pavement. Go out and repeatedly and heavily engage the ABS. You may already have a sense what kind of pedal effort it takes to engage the ABS. If there is air in the ABS module, engaging the ABS will cycle the solenoids and push out the air. Sometimes the pedal gets even softer but you will still have adequate braking. I have done this and it works very well. After 3 or 4 times of ABS engagement, go back and bleed again. You should see more air and the pedal should become rock hard. Be mindful of your surroundings and level of traction. Don't do it with other cars around. Safety is paramount. The low speeds will allow enough energy to be attained to successfully engage the ABS yet not create a hazard to yourself or others. Again, use your best judgement. Stay in control.


Once complete, torque your bleeders to spec. On my SS 1LE, this is 13-15 lbs/ft. Then you'll want to clean out the bleeders. Bleeders seal at the bottom, using a taper against the caliper. Once closed, the bleeder has a column of brake fluid with in them. You must remove this trapped fluid otherwise it will:
-absorb moisture over time and corrode the bleeder and bleeder threads. When the fluid starts to corrode the threads, the resulting corrosion acts as a thread locker and this is a reason that bleeders may break the next time they are loosened.
-or, leak out over the caliper, possibly destroying the finish.
I use wooden Q-tips for firearm cleaning. Regular personal hygiene Q tips will also work. I cut of the cotton tip off and insert the wooden part into the bleeder. Since this will push out the trapped fluid. have a rag ready to absorb the fluid as it pushes out of the bleeder. Do this a couple times to remove the excess.

Wow! Great write up, very much appreciate you taking the time to write such a thorough explanation!

I think I'll do the "Dry Method" since my brother will be here so I'll have an extra set of eyes and hands...

Thanks again!

[2SS Capt]

Got everything done over the last couple days, did the "Dry Method" worked well but even the thin gasket from the pump was a bit too thick but we made it work... My old fluid wasn't that discolored so it was kind of hard to tell when the new fluid was flowing so we did a bit of overkill on the flush/bleed (used 2.5L of Castrol SRF Brake Fluid) but I'm confident there is new fluid to all 4 corners... Took it for a very short drive around the cul-du-sac last evening (road was damp due to rain yesterday morning) but no leaks and much improved brake pedal feel (from what I could tell), I'll take if for a better ride tomorrow... Also did MSD Red Plug wires... That was a bitch and the MSD wires were about an inch or two shorter than the OEM wires which were already minimum length... MSD should make their wires about 2" longer...

[dpevans]

Originally Posted by 2SS Capt

Can you guys elaborate a little more on the "Dry Method" using the Motive Bleeder? It sounds like they say add fluid to the Motive reservoir but you guys are saying do not? What is the advantage of the "Dry Method"? (I'm guessing not having to clean the Motive tool of nasty brake fluid?)

Also, I have 3 liters of Castrol SRF Brake Fluid, I assume this should be more than enough (even considering I'm changing the brake lines)?

Thanks again for all the input and suggestions, this project will happen next week some time as my brother comes to town on Saturday and this will be one of our things to get done while he is here... (Something to hang out, catch up , drink some beers and do some car things together... Haven't seen him in over a year, so looking forward to it...)

I have always use the Motive wet, I put in about 1.5 liters suck out all the fluid I can get out of the reservoir then top it off, attach the Motive pump up to 15 lbs then wait 5 minutes to check for leaks. I normally push through about 1/2 liter through the RR to make sure all the old fluid is through then 1/4 through LF, LR, RF. Changing to stainless lines you have to really tighten the connection with the factory line as tight as you can get it. Never had an issue cleaning up the Motive, I dump out all unsued fluid I never saved once the bottle has been opened, then use Denatured Alcohol and pump to clean line then swish around and let air dry. Not really a big issue to clean it out. I can't see opening and closing and depressurizing every time you need to fill with fluid with the dry method.