08-14-2014, 07:11 PM | #1 |
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does anyone think GM will ever claim its spot back on top with the 6th gen Camaro?
with the new Challenger SRT Hellcat and the rumored 750hp -3500lbs 2016 Gt500, are we EVER going to get a Camaro that can beat these cars?? i know GMs flagship is the Corvette but why does the Camaro now have to be behind the pack of cars that are in its class? as much as i love them, i WONT buy a new one until they produce a Camaro that can finally shut up all the Ford boys out there...
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08-14-2014, 07:57 PM | #2 |
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No way GM will come close to 707 hp with the Camaro.
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08-14-2014, 07:58 PM | #3 |
Camaro6 2016-2018
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considering the 2015 mustange GT weighs 3,700 pounds i find it difficult to believe the GT500 will weigh 200 pounds less.
as far as the Challenger remember something: The Z/28 just came out with unbelievable track capability. There's no way Dodge can compete with that. Their car is too heavy. As it was the ZL1 already had them beat. The only thing they could do was add more power. It's still a car that weighs.....4,449 pounds. Think about that number. The Camaro is lighter and The next generation Camaro will be lighter than that it is now. Even with a supercharged engine it will be lighter. So they don't need 700HP to be as fast. On top of that it will be an unbelievable handling car with Alpha underpinning it. The Camaro has and always will be more than a drag car. |
08-14-2014, 08:54 PM | #4 |
Hail to the King baby!
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If by top dog you mean 708 hp I really doubt it. But as for overall performance and even sales Camaro remains top dog. A hp number doesn't change that IMO.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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08-14-2014, 09:46 PM | #5 |
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It doesn't now but eventually, they will have to hit those numbers. With Ford building a Mustang with IRS and a better chassis, plus having built the GT500, Chevy can't just rely on the Camaro handling better anymore. It more than likely won't have the same handling advantage. If Chevy wants the Camaro to stay competitive in the future, they have to build the best car they can and if it gets too close to Corvette performance, then too damn bad.
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08-14-2014, 09:56 PM | #6 |
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Popular opinion lately has been HP above all else. I'd buy the best car with a manual over the fastest car with an auto all day, every day
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08-15-2014, 11:07 PM | #7 |
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When looking at these three cars if all you see is HP numbers, you're extremely narrow minded.
Look at the price point of the high end models of the Challenger and Mustang, what ford and dodge are doing is trying to compete with the Camaro and corvette with one car and just offering crazy HP numbers as a gimmick. We don't have any good solid numbers yet on the 2015 Mustang, but to say it will handle like a 1LE, ZL1, or Z28 is just crazy. Fords dont turn well, never have. So in just one Gen transition they will suddenly have it all figured out? I doubt it. The challenger doesnt handle well, adding 700hp to it wont fix it. I don't understand why people think this new mustang that hasn't been real world tested yet and a heavy, horribly handling car with 700 hp translates to game over for Chevy. |
08-16-2014, 05:52 PM | #8 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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Quote:
GT500 is not a better car than the Camaro. It might be if they do a new version or the GT350 replaces it. But the Gen6 will step up again. Yes there are a few people that will choose a Challenger over a Camaro simply for the 707 hp. But they will have to pay more than the price of a ZL1 to get one. The number of people that can pay $60,000 plus for a car JUST because it has 707 hp are few and far between. I could be wrong but I just don't see more than a few thousand sales for the Hellcat at that price. Keep in mind Fiat has had the number 3 selling car in this segment all along. They needed to try and do something, anything to make a splash........and they did. I just don't see Camaro sales numbers dropping because of the Challenger Hellcat. The new Mustang on the other hand will likely hurt Camaro numbers. What drives the engine is the base car. In 2002, the V8 Camaros and Firebirds were actually still selling. But it simply became a crappy V6 coupe and the bottom end dropped out. And in the case of the Challenger? It's still an overweight underperforming car in all guises but the $60,000 Hellcat. GM could step up if that is not the case. And they could easily tune the new Z06 engine for another 50 hp if they felt they had to. But that engine in a Camaro is 3 years away at best AND WILL COST A CRAP LOAD. Put the currently announced 650 HP Z06 engine in an Alpha based Camaro at well under 4,000 pounds and I'm fairly certain the Hellcat is just a Meankitty. Sorry, but "the best car" doesn't mean "the highest HP number" for me.
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08-16-2014, 08:10 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
If you just want stock horsepower then by all means go buy a Hellcat. You'll be one of the few owners of a very niche car. |
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08-16-2014, 11:18 PM | #10 |
Rice Harvester
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Considering that they are switching from live axle to IRS it's entirely possible. I wouldn't be so quick to assume the next gen won't have any handling capabilities, especially with Ford marketing this as a "global car."
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08-16-2014, 11:24 PM | #11 | |
Rice Harvester
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Quote:
Test drove a 392 the other day. It's substantially more powerful than my 2011 5.0, but thanks to all the extra weight it feels much slower. |
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08-17-2014, 12:46 AM | #12 | |
Moderator.ca
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Quote:
On the 'normal' trim levels, it looks like the Camaro shouldn't have much of an issue out-muscling the Mustang based off of current engine offerings, and up top ... its nothing more than speculation about speculation. We don't know enough to make a decent guess yet, so there isn't much point in even trying. How about we revisit this idea in 6 months or a year when we know a bit more. But overall ... GM has 'won' the battle of the 5th Gens. Year over year, the 5th generation Camaro has consistently outsold the 5th generation Mustang. Regardless of power to weight or visibility or ride or handling or interior styling or exterior bodywork or questionable tail lights or price or whatever ... more people have decided that new Camaros are more worthy of their hard earned dollars than Mustangs over the last ~5 years. Because when it comes down to it, that is the ultimate goal of an automaker. Everything else is secondary.
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08-17-2014, 08:40 AM | #13 | |
Call Me"Doc"
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Quote:
Unrelated, but i laughed when I drove the 2015 mustang on Forza 5. It drove like garbage.... |
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08-18-2014, 11:48 AM | #14 | |
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Quote:
My point is with Ford/Dodge willing to build hugely high horsepower engines, and GM clearly not for the Camaro, and Ford building a better Mustang, GM will have to change its ways or watch the Camaro fall behind. When is the last time GM tuned or modified an engine to produce more power? the 2003 LS6? More than a decade ago? If GM cared enough about the lack of power compared to the Camaro's competition, why didn't they tune the LSA? You honestly believe GM will put the LT4 in a Camaro at it's full potential? I'd expect it to be around 600 hp if they even use the LT4. If the LS9 was too expensive to go in the ZL1, there's no way the LT4 is going in. Last edited by Bhobbs; 08-18-2014 at 01:12 PM. |
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