[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

GM didn't play their cards at all is my contention. I can go to a casino and play poker, fold every hand without looking at my cards, wait for the blinds and antes to eat up my money and then go home.

Watch a Mecum or Barrett-Jackson auction. Late model Challengers, Mustangs and Corvette's come across the block with excitement, the commentary is detailed and enthusiastic and then...here comes a Camaro... umm...some generic discussion...umm...Sold!!! Here comes a Mustang. It's a Shelby!

Do you think this is an accident? That it's because these other cars have better packaging? Better visibility? Bigger trunks? Come on, this is marketing and PR (and the lack of it) on display.

How much does Mustang market?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

How much does Mustang market?

Ha haaaaa. Maybe they will believe you. I’ve been shouted down for my ignorance for years now. Experience, training and knowledge mean very little on the internet these days

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ha haaaaa. Maybe they will believe you. I’ve been shouted down for my ignorance for years now. Experience, training and knowledge mean very little on the internet these days

You clearly haven’t been paying attention. My credibility on “7th Gen” as well as the value of marketing niche products is as below water as yours.

***EDIT*** Actually, the idea of “marketing” was never lost on the Camaro Team or even the Corvette team, even though you very rarely see ads for them. Or Mustang. Or Porsche sports cars. Or Ferrari. The evidence of marketing efforts lined the conferences rooms that the Camaro and Corvette teams used. Big blowups of the magazine covers that they have been featured on. Those covers could not be bought. They had to be earned and they were cherished by the teams because that was the ultimate marketing win. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t some element of the bonuses for the team execs tied to magazine covers featuring their cars?

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

How much does Mustang market?

Not much, but I have at least seen a commercial for them each time a new gen came out. I don’t really watch TV much so I haven’t seen a s650 commercial yet (I suspect that will change as the football season kicks into full gear). I still to this day remember the commercial for when the coyote engine came out. It was a great commercial that made me want the car even more than I already did. I also remember the s550 commercial. I can’t say I have ever seen a 6th gen camaro commercial.

I ONLY learned about the 6th gen camaro because I am a performance enthusiast and motor trend taught me how awesome it was. Motor trend costs money now and had it costed money back when I was purchasing my last 6th gen, I 100% would have gotten another Mustang because I would not have been made aware how much better the Camaro is.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

How much does Mustang market?

Enough apparently? More than GM? A lot? Enough to show they care?

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ha haaaaa. Maybe they will believe you. I’ve been shouted down for my ignorance for years now. Experience, training and knowledge mean very little on the internet these days

You were never shouted down, nor were you personally called ignorant, people simply disagreed with your frequent appeal to authority and consistently criticized GM's approach to marketing and advertising, none of which is your fault.

My brief summary of this unabatedly resurgent topic and the arguments being made on GM's side and perhaps behalf (unofficially, of course), is that it's full of "can't" and "not possible" while other companies somehow always manage to find a way. It's a matter of will.

Can't fix this, can't change that, can't convince competitive buyers... even though the initial research may have been shortsightedly limited to Camaro owners who simply wanted "moaaar", that was what, 10 years ago, is it too much to ask of GM to move on from that mistake? Also, it's not as if only one sports car can exist even in today's market, or they would all have to be the same. Yeah, it's a small market, but not one with negligible leverage.


Anyway, water under the bridge, the Camaro already died in 2018 when Al Oppenheiser was shuttled to the Hummer EV team, and for the record, I am very happy that I was still able to buy and enjoy this extraordinary car. There still isn't anything else I'd buy today, not a C8, not a BMW, not a Supra, not any EV.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

How much does Mustang market?

Originally Posted by Alan47717

Enough apparently? More than GM? A lot? Enough to show they care?

Bet you can’t find a US commercial for an S550 or S650.

You might find an occasional local Ford dealership association that has a Mustang among the other Fords displayed, but I doubt you’ll find a Mustang commercial. There actually were 6th Gen commercials for Camaro but they were short-lived. One showed people participating in a Chevy drive event and driving on a banked track and having the time of their lives. For a few seconds we see a young lady driving a red Camaro. This was more of a brand commercial than a Camaro commercial and the point of the commercial was to get people to attend the drive event when it came to their area.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/wOUl/chevrol...enjoy-the-ride

For cars like Camaro and Mustang, the best marketing is to be on the cover of enthusiast magazines and to be the models that NASCAR racers are built to emulate. That’s where the old saying “win on Sunday, sell on Monday” comes from. NASCAR is basically a 3-hour car commercial.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Not much, but I have at least seen a commercial for them each time a new gen came out. I don’t really watch TV much so I haven’t seen a s650 commercial yet (I suspect that will change as the football season kicks into full gear). I still to this day remember the commercial for when the coyote engine came out. It was a great commercial that made me want the car even more than I already did. I also remember the s550 commercial. I can’t say I have ever seen a 6th gen camaro commercial.

I ONLY learned about the 6th gen camaro because I am a performance enthusiast and motor trend taught me how awesome it was. Motor trend costs money now and had it costed money back when I was purchasing my last 6th gen, I 100% would have gotten another Mustang because I would not have been made aware how much better the Camaro is.

Originally Posted by Alan47717

Enough apparently? More than GM? A lot? Enough to show they care?

I’ve tried but we’ll give it another shot.

Television commercials are advertising. Advertising is only one method of marketing.

Marketing goes way beyond advertising and includes research to understand the customers wants and needs.

GM’s failure was not in lack of commercials, but in defining the product properly. As I’ve mentioned GM basically designed the Gen6 for Gen5 and existing Camaro buyers. Problem was making the best Camaro ever for Camaro faithful was a bad business decision. It’s why a TV commercial won’t move the needle. The people it was designed for knew and the others? Well it wasn’t designed for them. Like I’ve said before if you make the very best left handed baseball glove advertising it to right handers won’t help sales.

And seriously to even post GM doesn’t care is obvious. It’s a company and has no feelings one way or the other except profit, which GM is pretty good at. The people on the other hand do. However, a Gen7 or even a mild refresh is not happening simply because it’s not profitable right now. Speculation here, but why would you spend a dime on an ICE Camaro when you investment strategy had an EV Camaro in 2027ish?

[olrocker]

Ok lets talk marketing......

The Mustang is STILL, 55 years later, making it pay from Steve McQueen's iconic 1968 film Bullitt. To this day that chase scene through the hills of San Francisco, with Steve himself doing much of the driving in a Hunter Green 1968 Mustang GT 390 fastback 4 speed with optional 5 spoke mag wheels is still considered one of the all-time greatest car chase scenes in cinema history.

One of the two cars used in that scene, the one that Steve himself drove in the close-up angles filmed from the inside of the car, just sold 2 years ago at Mecum for $3.5m before fees. And the greatest thing about it is that the story of the car goes that Warner Brothers sold it after filming for about $6000 to a guy who gave it to his wife who was a school teacher and drove it to work every day for 30 years.

When people hear or see "Mustang", maybe they don't think 1968 GT 390 fastback, but they are sure to think American icon in no small part due to that movie.

Where's Camaro's iconic TV or movie placement? Transformers? The Hawaii 5-0 reboot? Simon and Simon? Those aren't Bullitt.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Bet you can’t find a US commercial for an S550 or S650.

I clearly remember seeing on TV a commercial for the s550 where someone placed a microphone at the exhaust and then revved the engine. I thought it was a neat commercial.

Originally Posted by Number 3

GM’s failure was not in lack of commercials, but in defining the product properly. As I’ve mentioned GM basically designed the Gen6 for Gen5 and existing Camaro buyers. Problem was making the best Camaro ever for Camaro faithful was a bad business decision. It’s why a TV commercial won’t move the needle. The people it was designed for knew and the others? Well it wasn’t designed for them. Like I’ve said before if you make the very best left handed baseball glove advertising it to right handers won’t help sales.

I wasn’t a previous camaro buyer. In fact it was third on my list until I learned about how much better of a platform it is. I think if they advertised more they would have stolen more folks who track their cars. I admit that is a small subset of the population but even 7 model years later, I still run into folks who are performance enthusiasts but do not know about the Camaro’s capabilities. The 4 cylinder 1le I personally feel should have been an absolute sales hit due to its pricing. It should have stolen all the Brz/frs customers.

[Hops]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I clearly remember seeing on TV a commercial for the s550 where someone placed a microphone at the exhaust and then revved the engine. I thought it was a neat commercial.



I wasn’t a previous camaro buyer. In fact it was third on my list until I learned about how much better of a platform it is. I think if they advertised more they would have stolen more folks who track their cars. I admit that is a small subset of the population but even 7 model years later, I still run into folks who are performance enthusiasts but do not know about the Camaro’s capabilities. The 4 cylinder 1le I personally feel should have been an absolute sales hit due to its pricing. It should have stolen all the Brz/frs customers.

The Camaro wasn't first on my list either.... When looking in 2019, i was almost set on buying a used BMW M2 to replace my BMW 128i i had been taking to the track for several years. I test drove a ss 1le kind of to confirm the M2 was the right car, and then ended up buying the Camaro!

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by JT6Speed

I think it's a combination of a lot of things. That said, I think the Camaro appeals more to people who really put performance first, and are willing to overcome the "issues" like visibility, small trunk opening, small interior, etc. A lot of automotive journalists/outlets really knocked the car for those reasons, and it I think it turned people off.

You're not wrong. The problem is that is such a small % of the market. IIRC even when sales were good it was something like 75 or 80% of the 3 pony car sales were made up of the base engine variants. So they basically made a car targeted for only 30% of an already super small segment

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I clearly remember seeing on TV a commercial for the s550 where someone placed a microphone at the exhaust and then revved the engine. I thought it was a neat commercial.



I wasn’t a previous camaro buyer. In fact it was third on my list until I learned about how much better of a platform it is. I think if they advertised more they would have stolen more folks who track their cars. I admit that is a small subset of the population but even 7 model years later, I still run into folks who are performance enthusiasts but do not know about the Camaro’s capabilities. The 4 cylinder 1le I personally feel should have been an absolute sales hit due to its pricing. It should have stolen all the Brz/frs customers.

How did you learn about how good of a platform it is?

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

How did you learn about how good of a platform it is?

Motor trend on YouTube. I stated a couple posts above that if motor trend costed money/got removed from YouTube back when I purchased my first 6th gen I never would have found out how good it was and I’d definitely be in an s550 right now.