Second thoughts on cam swap

[christianchevell]

Technically speaking people drool over the idle of my car..... LOL

Forced induction good, can go bad also, A cam good , can go bad also....

The deal is people were in the early stages of ls engines over camming them and then they would use what ever oil and well not keep a eye on the springs and upper valve train enough or know exactly what they are doing installing the cam and everything has to be perfect on initial start up... correct cam timing set in the engine, correct lifter preload, and a lot and I mean a lot : thought you do not need to break in the cam. Just because its a roller.... I break the cam in using driven racing BR30.
Some blamed some soft cams, I have even seen stock cams be soft and fail or a lifter take out the cam. Generally over time on here though I have read less and less engine failures from cam shafts as people learned and came here as a knowledge source. I understand both sides of things as hey... a bad timing incident and a FI car or any car can become a grenade. What ever you do: do it right it matters......

I dropped a valve, I had a over rev and so now I am on my second engine because the first one was so friggin strong it was fine for months before a very slight tick. I know I should have replaced the springs but I was not exactly watching the revs saving my life trying to trans break a little into third form 5th passing about 80mph ...but when someone pulls right in front of your front bumper and the dang trans repeatedly missed or would not go to third it was over and up..... 5 to 1...

I have no doubt in the world new springs and pushrods and I would still be with that engine for many years to come but it was a good excuse to upgrade and I wanted to.
Just as with that engine.... My springs are probably going to be switched out every 25 k no matter what, and a new shifter and shift light.... I am really feeling good with the 700 rwhp clutch and the amount of torque is supercharged area feel enough to know hey ..... Keep out of it... And hey some guy in California benefitted when I sold him my plain old comp cam core TSP cam looking new at 10000 miles... You see I went a little milder for less spring pressure and in case someday I up to LS7 heads, and then the ratio of their rockers being 1:8 would make me have a lot more lift and change out to higher lift springs. I am still kind of hoping for a vararam intake to be made though LOL...

I know blaqwhole was trying to install a turbo kit and don't know what happened with that but god its freezing out to do it in the street sucks... SO, basically I think a FI engine tuned right should be fine on the stock hypereutectic pistons as many have proved with the right tune. I also know it can be problematic also as the stock head gaskets are not exactly the same as on supercharged v-8s, the early supercharged zl1s had bearing issues with the blower they sport, and well anything that can go wrong can and will eventually to someone who will come here to the forum....

Many people I find it really funny for their first post its: Car got crunched, car got stole, this or that major disaster..... And its like a clearing house for crap. I am happy as a clam with my cam and it has a idle that's naturally higher now than the regular ls3 by quite a bit...950 rpm so the idle is even though it sounds lopey actually stronger than the stock by quite a bit and the sound form the overlap and duration is music to the ears.

One of the things you will hear people complain about with cams is the stock "typewriter" sound of the lifters and rockers doing their jobs. I think the typewriter sound is the pretty sound of the little rollers doing their job... rolling not dragging on the cam as if the sheer in the oil is adjusted right and the stuff is not too slippery as I have even seen that.... causing lifter failure.

I notice that the oil being up to temperature makes a big difference in the sound of the engine, and quiets the valve train down. I have also heard of those with l99 using 1/2 quart low oil fill ups to make valve train noise dissipate... Upper valve train failures or cam failures as something many of us have watched over the years, it is though still by far the exception instead of the rule... And as I said much less frequent if the person is informed... Because a lifter failure is not a cam failure, a broken trunnion and rocker is not a cam failure, lack of oil is not a cam failure, etc....

SO what ever you do go to research, and ask and do it repeatedly if needed for help to get the right parts and make sure its done right what ever it is. And if you have a stock shifter for a ls3 and it was like mine... I am sorry, But my favorite mod is my MGW shifter and its never missed a shift. Third always was kind of crappy in the stock one like the dang thing would not go to the correct position, man my shifter does now with a real strong return spring.... well gotta go rambling on...

[Pro Stock John]

Originally Posted by GONIF

The new Maggie kit has no heat soak problems with a intercooler . GM has looked into this and have come to the conclusion that the Supercharger is the way to get the best power, emissions ,drivability and relieability out of a an LS engine . ZO6, Cad CTS V . 50 or 60 lbs more on the nose of the car should not make all that much difference . Bottom line is nothing else gives the low end torque off idle better than a supercharger . And Low end torque is what you want on the street.

Maggie blower is not the only way to go quicker. If you put a magnuson blower on a stock L99 Camaro it's only going to go low 12's.

[GONIF]

Originally Posted by Pro Stock John

Maggie blower is not the only way to go quicker. If you put a magnuson blower on a stock L99 Camaro it's only going to go low 12's.

Yes I know that , and that is not to bad on the street . But a blower ,ported heads ,headers and a small cam with a proper tune and tires and suspension mods is an easy high 10 low 11 and very drivable on the street . Wait till you see the new gen 6 Camaro ZL1 with the 8 speed auto and you will see how well a supercharged Camaro runs pure stock .

[Smirnoff]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Morons like Joseph1LE are sitting here thinking that 75-80 rwhp from a cam swap alone is logical. So they go off and get a huge-ass cam and try to make 500 hp to the wheels on a NA LS3. And then you have horrible driveability, poor idle, and an unreliable engine. I'm not knocking anyone for doing whatever with their car. Hey, its your car, your money, do what you want. But the fact is that I have come across enough threads in many forums and posts on Facebook pages to turn me off to cam swaps. And I have no problem sharing that info with anyone. I'd rather warn people than give them false positive info and have even more people having cam related failures. Maybe in a few years when some of these companies start developing more realistic cam profiles I'll be more willing to do one myself. But for now, I'm good.

Laying out a large sum of cam money to increase numbers on a computer screen & then find out the "street" car is actually slower on the street w/unfavorable driving habits, decreased mpg, & additional maintenance is what you have come across & just not what people want to hear.....

[WHAMMO]

if youre afraid of camming it, then upgrade everything; better oil pump, springs, cam core and 'softer lobes', rockers, better lifters, timing chain and pay a reputable shop. If it blows, you can say you have done everything to avoid 'badluck'. You know what? it could blow up by badluck anyway.

IMO, lifters(with aftermarket cam) and oil pump are the only thing to be afraid of in LS. Still, you dont hear about all the good oil pump running out there in millions of people's cars/truck who do not know jack about any LS forums.

LL Solid roller is a safe way to go too. And outperforms hydrolic. Cost a lot more too. Thats what I want, but will I pay for it?

IMO, when you get into internal modification, its gonna blow up sooner than staying stock internals. Unless your stock pump crap out or other crazy badluck shit.

[BlaqWhole]

Your car, your money, do whatever you want with it. If you ask for others opinions on cam swaps, Imma give you mine whether people like it or not. And like I've said, I have seen enough threads all over the internet about immediate failures and failures over time to make me think it ain't worth it. You do whatever you want.

[flyer08]

I've seen more threads about failures caused by UDPs than cams but you have one of those installed

[anthony martinez]

I second the FACT of horror stories after immediately after a cam change. I did mine years ago. The story:
I worked an exhausting 8.5 hour day on a Friday in the office. When I got off at 5pm I had to drive to the house to pick up my camaro and my boys. We drove back to a buddy of mines work shop at 6pm. They run vacuum trucks in the oilfield business and our shop was full where I work. The boys and I (at the time 15,17) pulled the hood off and dropped the headers grounds, intake and misc odds and ends. We then put the car up on jack stands, uncoupled the converter, transmission ac compressor and anything else that needed to be removed so we can pull the engine out. Took a break at 730 to feed (and buy some beer for me) the youngsters, and my buddy. The engine was on the stand by about 10pm and disassembled by 11. Meaning Heads, oil pan, front cover, cam, afm, and any other stuff removed or off.
Cleaned up tools and home for the night after talking bulls'n for another hour. I went back to the shop at 9am. Torqued my heads, and all that stuff. Stuffed the engine back in the car by 7:30pm...Loaded up on a trailer Sunday morning to have the car tuned on Monday. It all went smoothly


After I got it tuned the the following weekend I had realized the problems that I was about to face. I had to learn how to drive in front of the cops (so that I would not get any unwanted attention), not that I was mashing the gas but as you know the stall will make it sound that way. The next problem, The grin from ear to ear I could not keep off. I couldn't not stay home I had to go to the store to get something and be gone for a hour or two. My wife at the time stopped driving the loaded Yukon to work, (yep she was getting attention I did not want either). She became my ex not because of the car. Which I kept....Don't put a cam in it. These were a few of my problems in a nut shell.
1). Unwanted police attention. If it wasn't the tint it was I just wanted to check it out kind of stop.
2). Smile from ear to ear that would not stop
3). I did not want to just chill at the house I wouldn't mind going to the store and the time would just pass me by.
4). The gas bill went up (but I did not build nor do I care about gas) All of my vehicles are V8's. 11 silverado, 10 camaro, 07 yukon, and the oldest boy's 81 1500 p/u with a 383.

Don't cam your car unless you are ready to face these real problems

[Jason@Phastek]

We have sold 100s of Cams for the Camaro with no issues due to camshafts. Install is usually the issue or inferior springs. We carry the BTR Brand and Brian's Cam and Spring choices are great.

[Pro Stock John]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Yes I know that , and that is not to bad on the street . But a blower ,ported heads ,headers and a small cam with a proper tune and tires and suspension mods is an easy high 10 low 11 and very drivable on the street . Wait till you see the new gen 6 Camaro ZL1 with the 8 speed auto and you will see how well a supercharged Camaro runs pure stock .

Or good sized cam, ported heads, converter and a gear and run high 10's no blower like some of us.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by flyer08

I've seen more threads about failures caused by UDPs than cams but you have one of those installed

Let me ask you people something, what exactly do you have against someone advising against something. Are you all taking this personally or something? Because it sounds to me like you're all getting very defensive over an opinion that differs from yours. I bet you there are even more cam swaps out there that have gone bad than I've come across. I bet you that there are lots of people out there who were too embarrassed or scared of getting bashed so they never said anything about their engine blowing up. Hey, you want a cam, go for it bro. But if that engine kicks, don't say you weren't warned that it could happen.

[Camaro Dude]

@Blaqwhole

I think flyer08's point was, that their are indeed "some" threads on this forum, reporting issues with UDP's.

Perhpas he was wondering, why those did not raise a flag on your radar screen?

[flyer08]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

@Blaqwhole

I think flyer08's point was, that their are indeed "some" threads on this forum, reporting issues with UDP's.

Perhpas he was wondering, why those did not raise a flag on your radar screen?

Exactly my point. You can do "research" to find a specific answer to any question if you search long enough

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

@Blaqwhole

I think flyer08's point was, that their are indeed "some" threads on this forum, reporting issues with UDP's.

Perhpas he was wondering, why those did not raise a flag on your radar screen?

Oh ok, I gotcha. Well I never saw a thread where someone had engine failure from a UDB install. The only threads I saw concerning any issues were related to insufficient voltage and overheating. And I only saw about 2 of those. So I figured if I had those issues then I would simply just put the stock one back on. No harm no foul. But as it is I never had a problem. Some people on those threads decided that the extra 5hp was not worth the price of the UDP and the time to install it. And that is cool. I got mine used for a great price so it was worth it to me. Besides a UDP is a simple and easy install. It is nowhere even close to a cam install by any stretch. It isn't even a comparison. I do my own work on my car. The cam failure threads I saw were not related to the person's or shop's work or the tune. If it was then I'd just tell whoever is doing it to be very careful and take their time and triple check their work. But certain parts in the engine seem to fail when an aftermarket cam goes in. And when you factor in the cost of everything that you would need to replace plus the labor involved (or the labor cost if a shop does it), I just don't think it is a cost effective swap. Not for 20-40hp. But like I said before and over and over again and again, this is how I personally feel about it. Others may feel opposite. And it is cool if they do. I'm not discouraging anyone from it. I'm just warning people of what I've seen here and on other forums. But hey, if someone wants to do it, then good luck and I hope it turns out well.