[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Buzzberd6

Each to their own. I've been using Carbotech XP pads for years in my Honda race car and been very happy with them. The fact that none of the other major brake pad manufacturers (save Raybestos) would make them for my model any longer kind of forced my hand though. They have worked quite well for me, and the XP-12s are surprisingly easy on the rotors too IMHO.

found my friend's post (the guy who's been racing his CRX for years) and also my posts in the same thread

Post #5

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69152

[hlyshft]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I agree, it will perform even worse on a car that weighs 1100 lbs more than a BRZ if you think about it, it is the same exact compound and heavier car will make the things even worse. I noticed that most of the people who praised the Carbotechs never really used other pads to compare and they tend to compare them to the OEM/stock pads and find them better than that. Without trying the other race pads, it's impossible to compare one to another right?


You shouldn't need to flush the whole fluid after each event unless you neglect to be careful and do a cool down lap. I bleed my RBF600 after every 3-4 events and flush the whole thing every 6 months and never boiled them.

Pad surface area, rotor size, caliper size/piston count, cooling ability, etc. should also come into play. That's why I said the best comparison pad vs pad is going to be on the same or similar car. In fact, I'm hoping to run into someone using the Raybestos one day on the new 1LE so we can ride swap to get a feel for the difference.

I wouldn't be quite so harsh on the Carbotech pads, but I understand that's your personal experience.

I've put them through some serious abuse on my last 1LE in the XP12/XP10 setup and they performed great. There are plenty of others out there that have had much track success with these as well. In the end, to each their own but always be willing to keep an open mind.

Yup... boiled the Motul RBF600 after two consecutive track days back to back. Lesson learned. Again, there are going to be many variables that play into that such as higher ambient temps in Vegas, effective cooling, close sessions with appropriate cooling laps in between, driving style.... the list goes on. Motul RBF600 does not prevent boil for everyone. Thus, time to try the Castrol SRF.

[hlyshft]

Originally Posted by AZ_1LE

Grass is always greener

With carbotech, it's important to get the right pads for the type of driving you're going to do. They have somewhat specific operating temperatures where they work best. There are a bunch of teams in IMSA and World Challenge who use their pads. I ran XP10's up front and XP8's out back on my RS4, and they were just about perfect for running around Inde Motorsports Ranch down in Tucson due to the somewhat low braking loads, but other guys have used XP12's and 10's at tracks like AMP that are a lot heavier on brakes.

Very true. There are a lot of pad options out there and a lot of variables that ultimately go into selecting the right pad for a given driver.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by hlyshft;9640044[B

]Pad surface area, rotor size, caliper size/piston count, cooling ability, etc. should also come into play. That's why I said the best comparison pad vs pad is going to be on the same or similar car. [/B]In fact, I'm hoping to run into someone using the Raybestos one day on the new 1LE so we can ride swap to get a feel for the difference.

I wouldn't be quite so harsh on the Carbotech pads, but I understand that's your personal experience.

I've put them through some serious abuse on my last 1LE in the XP12/XP10 setup and they performed great. There are plenty of others out there that have had much track success with these as well. In the end, to each their own but always be willing to keep an open mind.

Yup... boiled the Motul RBF600 after two consecutive track days back to back. Lesson learned. Again, there are going to be many variables that play into that such as higher ambient temps in Vegas, effective cooling, close sessions with appropriate cooling laps in between, driving style.... the list goes on. Motul RBF600 does not prevent boil for everyone. Thus, time to try the Castrol SRF.

I see your point but you have to keep in mind; the advantages of the caliper, rotor size (for heat dissipation), and most importantly the huge brake booster (compared to tiny little ones in the Miata/S2000/BRZ-FRS) also favor the other pads not just the Carbotechs That's the reason why I gave you same car, same condition example ..to simply hold all the other constant for an empirical data

[Tomiboy]

Carbotech pads are extremely sensitive to an existing rotor that has any transfer layer from another brand pad, even OEM. They recommend you either use new rotors or clean the old rotors by cutting or even a sanding disc. They are also very sensitive to improper bedding. These two issues are why some people love them and others hate them. If everything is done correctly they are awesome pads.

[Ryephile]

It's not exactly tough to rinse off a rotor between pad changes to remove the transfer layer.

In the end there's going to be several camps regarding who likes what pad brand/style. I've enjoyed years of satisfaction with Carbotech in the Lotus and the Miata, but it doesn't mean that I don't appreciate a good Wilwood H compound in the right car setup.

Fortunately there are lots of good brake pads out there for us to choose from to cater to our preferences.

[Tomiboy]

From the Carbotech website FAQs:

2. Do I have to resurface (turn) the rotors, or get new rotors?

If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads.

If the rotors and drums are in relatively good condition, meaning they are smooth, flat, with no visible cracks, deep scoring, distorted, and with no other visible damage; and you have ONLY had Carbotech brake pads on them, then they do not have to be resurfaced or replaced.

[JeromeS13]

Originally Posted by Tomiboy

From the Carbotech website FAQs:

2. Do I have to resurface (turn) the rotors, or get new rotors?

If you have had another manufacturers brake pads on those same rotors; then you will ABSOLUTELY have to replace or resurface (turn) those rotors before installing the Carbotech brake pads.

If the rotors and drums are in relatively good condition, meaning they are smooth, flat, with no visible cracks, deep scoring, distorted, and with no other visible damage; and you have ONLY had Carbotech brake pads on them, then they do not have to be resurfaced or replaced.

That makes absolutely no sense. There's nothing special about Carbotech pads that make them specifically compatible within the brand. Different materials are different materials. Carbotech should recommend one way or the other. Either resurface with changing pads, or not.

[Tomiboy]

Originally Posted by JeromeS13

That makes absolutely no sense. There's nothing special about Carbotech pads that make them specifically compatible within the brand. Different materials are different materials. Carbotech should recommend one way or the other. Either resurface with changing pads, or not.

I know where your coming from. The first time I saw you could use their street pads and race pads without cleaning the rotors off I felt it was a marketing ploy. Just buy their pads!

I believe the real reason has more to do with the makeup of the pad material and binders used to join the pad material from manufacturer to manufacturer. That's why many people switch from their OEM (or whatever) street pads to Carbotech track pads and have no issue and others have issues like shudddering and vibrating and saying they don't work. This and improper bedding. My guess is, if your street pads have a similar pad material and material binders they will swap as well as Carbotechs own street pads. Disclaimer....I am no brake expert by any means. Just some discussion points.

There are alot of different materials in pads:

http://parts.olathetoyota.com/what-a...mmon-materials

[AZ_1LE]

Originally Posted by JeromeS13

That makes absolutely no sense. There's nothing special about Carbotech pads that make them specifically compatible within the brand. Different materials are different materials. Carbotech should recommend one way or the other. Either resurface with changing pads, or not.

I'm not sure what's confusing about their statement. Basically, if you've been running another brand of pad, you'll want to resurface the rotor before running Carbotech's.

And "resurfacing" can really just mean taking some 120 grit sand paper to the surfaces or using a die grinder with a sanding disc on it to do the job very easily. Or, you can have them professionally resurfaced at a machine shop if you really wanted.

[Ryephile]

I got the Power Stop Track Day pads. Amazon Prime FTW. Nice packaging. Based on the date code these have been on the shelf for a while. I'm not used to calipers for heavy cars, but these front pads are enormous. For perspective the rear pads are about the same size as my 6-piston Wilwood Dynapro6's on the Miata.

First I need to get my car back, but hopefully it's in time for my Easter weekend track days. I'll report back how they are.

Power Stop Track Day pads by Ryephile, on Flickr

Power Stop Track Day pads by Ryephile, on Flickr

[MatthewAMEL]

Originally Posted by AZ_1LE

And "resurfacing" can really just mean taking some 120 grit sand paper to the surfaces or using a die grinder with a sanding disc on it to do the job very easily. Or, you can have them professionally resurfaced at a machine shop if you really wanted.

Well, not really.

The rotor really is porous, just not to the naked eye. Using any type of sanding product works the material you are trying to remove deeper into the rotor.

Your choices are to 'resurface' when you change pad manufacturers or use a rotor/pad combo for track.

One of the reasons I went with Hawk is the ability to run a street, AutoX and Track pad on same rotor without issue.

Sounds like Carbotech offers the same ability.

[Gville1LE]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

I got the Power Stop Track Day pads. Amazon Prime FTW.

Was the hardware extra or part of the brake pad package?

[Tomiboy]

The pads come with all the hardware shown