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Old 11-16-2017, 08:48 AM   #29
Tachitup
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric SS View Post
When I moved my camber at the plates (and left knuckle camber the same) by -1.5° (-3 to -1.5) it moved the toe from zero to 3/16 toe in so yours is pretty close to what I saw.
Thanks guys for sharing your intel. Sounds like for .5 degree of negative camber reduction (done on both sides of course) that it changes the total toe by 1/16" in the toe-in direction. This is good know. So if you started with 1/16" total toe-out and -2.5 degrees camber for track and reduced the camber to -1.5 degrees for street, then the toe would change from 1/16" total toe-out to 1/16" total toe-in.
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:53 AM   #30
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I do my best to avoid assumptions but sometimes it's very easy to guess the outcomes.
I am almost sure that 3Rs will be slightly faster than NT01/R888R but am definitely sure they're not on the R7/used slicks league so if I had to guess I would put them in between those two categories but closer to the lower end. Less than a second on a 2 minute course maybe?

when it comes to price/performance R888R/NT01 choice is a no brainer IMO, I think that's something everyone can agree The life on those two will be remarkably better than 3R or Cup2s from what I can tell especially when you can get 305/325s (wider the tire longer the treadwear even more on a heavier more powerful car such as ZL1).


The other benefit of the NT01/R888R is that since they're very predictable and consistent it allows to me to focus on improving one corner at a time. It is not possible with hero tires since just when I think I improved something tires are overheated so I feel that I need to back down.


There was a similar discussion and I posted the below picture, NASA's time trial rules booklet and points for certain tires. This is what I believe is a good reference to get an idea in terms of tire performance classification
Many thanks for your insight and comments. Now without making any assumptions, I think your conclusions are probably correct in terms of the 3R being slightly faster than the R888R / NT01 and the 3R wearing faster much like the Cup2's. Let's see what happens in the real world.

I've got my wheels on order. When they do arrive I'll order tires.

Let's keep this thread going.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:04 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Tachitup View Post
Many thanks for your insight and comments. Now without making any assumptions, I think your conclusions are probably correct in terms of the 3R being slightly faster than the R888R / NT01 and the 3R wearing faster much like the Cup2's. Let's see what happens in the real world.

I've got my wheels on order. When they do arrive I'll order tires.

Let's keep this thread going.
You're welcome. RUQWIKR mentioned that his fronts (305 3Rs) were done after 14 heatcycles and he has an SS 1LE, so I wouldn't be surprised if they lasted a bit less on a heavier and more powerful car.
Here take a look at post #31 and #32
http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...70#post9948070
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:07 PM   #32
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I've been through 8 sets of Cup2's and 3 sets of NT01's in roughly the same amount of track time. I am a huge fan of the Cup2's...for maybe 2 run days. After that they fall off very quickly and I sell them with nearly perfect tread. On fresh (or seasoned) NT01's I cannot run within 2 seconds of the MPSC2 when the cups are in their prime. However, with the nittos I run consistent laps throughout a session for pretty much the life of the tire. Knowing my baseline, I plan accordingly. If I need a fast lap, I don't mind changing the setup between sessions.

I will be on the Goodyears next month and I am hoping to get similar performance to the Cup2's. If so, that will be my go-to tire for when times matter. They are significantly cheaper.

Obviously camber plays a large role in the longevity conversation, but if I could offer one thought on the subject that might resonate, it is that if you push this car to its limits, you will not get more than 20 good 2min laps out of an R compound before seeing .5 seconds added to your times in quick progression. I'm talking about 10/10ths with a very capable driver. The car is too heavy to maintain peak tire performance, if longevity is also your goal. That's why the Nitto's and their older technology are still the best bang for your buck. This whole discussion is really about trade-offs, imho.

Now if you are not the guy who is chasing a PB every time you hit the track, I guess your results may vary. I'm just not that guy. I'm there to drive.

I'll have NT01's, Cup2's and RE's at MRLS this weekend. I plan to try them all in the two days. Can't wait to try the GY's
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:39 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by OminouSS View Post
I've been through 8 sets of Cup2's and 3 sets of NT01's in roughly the same amount of track time. I am a huge fan of the Cup2's...for maybe 2 run days. After that they fall off very quickly and I sell them with nearly perfect tread. On fresh (or seasoned) NT01's I cannot run within 2 seconds of the MPSC2 when the cups are in their prime. However, with the nittos I run consistent laps throughout a session for pretty much the life of the tire. Knowing my baseline, I plan accordingly. If I need a fast lap, I don't mind changing the setup between sessions.

I will be on the Goodyears next month and I am hoping to get similar performance to the Cup2's. If so, that will be my go-to tire for when times matter. They are significantly cheaper.

Obviously camber plays a large role in the longevity conversation, but if I could offer one thought on the subject that might resonate, it is that if you push this car to its limits, you will not get more than 20 good 2min laps out of an R compound before seeing .5 seconds added to your times in quick progression. I'm talking about 10/10ths with a very capable driver. The car is too heavy to maintain peak tire performance, if longevity is also your goal. That's why the Nitto's and their older technology are still the best bang for your buck. This whole discussion is really about trade-offs, imho.

Now if you are not the guy who is chasing a PB every time you hit the track, I guess your results may vary. I'm just not that guy. I'm there to drive.

I'll have NT01's, Cup2's and RE's at MRLS this weekend. I plan to try them all in the two days. Can't wait to try the GY's
Appreciate the feedback sir

It sounds like the lap time delta between Cup 2s and NT01s on a heavy and more powerful car (ZL1) is bigger than an SS or C7 and I think it makes sense since the heavier/more powerful can benefit even more with higher grip.

I don't think I am a "very capable driver who can drive 10/10ths" by any means but I noticed that after 3-4 hot laps with NT01s they also start falling behind their peak performance, with lighter cars they felt a bit more consistent for sure. Of course inconsistency is not as bad as any street tires but it's still there due to physical boundaries of heavier car.

I look forward to hearing from you on your back to back comparison between those tires at MRLS
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:09 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by glamcem View Post
Appreciate the feedback sir

It sounds like the lap time delta between Cup 2s and NT01s on a heavy and more powerful car (ZL1) is bigger than an SS or C7 and I think it makes sense since the heavier/more powerful can benefit even more with higher grip.

I don't think I am a "very capable driver who can drive 10/10ths" by any means but I noticed that after 3-4 hot laps with NT01s they also start falling behind their peak performance, with lighter cars they felt a bit more consistent for sure. Of course inconsistency is not as bad as any street tires but it's still there due to physical boundaries of heavier car.

I look forward to hearing from you on your back to back comparison between those tires at MRLS
Many thanks to both you guys for sharing your experiences ... you guys really 'get it'.

I can relate completely to your comments on the Nitto and Cup 2's, as well as the wear rate on heavier cars. Looking forward to hearing more on the 3R's. We know they're cheaper, but let's find out if they are faster wearing in exchanger for how much faster times.

I just put the cover on my ZL1 while I wait for spring. In the meantime I just ordered wheels.
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Old 11-17-2017, 11:36 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by glamcem View Post
Appreciate the feedback sir

It sounds like the lap time delta between Cup 2s and NT01s on a heavy and more powerful car (ZL1) is bigger than an SS or C7 and I think it makes sense since the heavier/more powerful can benefit even more with higher grip.

I don't think I am a "very capable driver who can drive 10/10ths" by any means but I noticed that after 3-4 hot laps with NT01s they also start falling behind their peak performance, with lighter cars they felt a bit more consistent for sure. Of course inconsistency is not as bad as any street tires but it's still there due to physical boundaries of heavier car.

I look forward to hearing from you on your back to back comparison between those tires at MRLS
Being modest there, Cem. I know you know the difference between driving 10/10ths capably and just mashing the skinny pedal on the straights.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachitup View Post
Many thanks to both you guys for sharing your experiences ... you guys really 'get it'.

I can relate completely to your comments on the Nitto and Cup 2's, as well as the wear rate on heavier cars. Looking forward to hearing more on the 3R's. We know they're cheaper, but let's find out if they are faster wearing in exchanger for how much faster times.

I just put the cover on my ZL1 while I wait for spring. In the meantime I just ordered wheels.
Good luck with your setup and please post some pictures of the finished product!
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:08 AM   #36
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Old 11-12-2018, 11:27 AM   #37
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Apologies for bumping an old thread, but it made more sense than starting over.

So here we are a year down the road, and I'm hoping more folks can post their experience with the Goodyear 3Rs in comparison to Cup 2s and R888/NT01.

My experiences with RE71 and NT01 is similar to the others posted, but on much lighter, low HP cars. I'm getting ready to put together a track wheel/tire combo for our ZL1, and am trying to decide which way to go... leaning heavily toward NT01, but I'd like to hear more about the 3Rs...
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Old 11-12-2018, 12:00 PM   #38
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Apologies for bumping an old thread, but it made more sense than starting over.

So here we are a year down the road, and I'm hoping more folks can post their experience with the Goodyear 3Rs in comparison to Cup 2s and R888/NT01.

My experiences with RE71 and NT01 is similar to the others posted, but on much lighter, low HP cars. I'm getting ready to put together a track wheel/tire combo for our ZL1, and am trying to decide which way to go... leaning heavily toward NT01, but I'd like to hear more about the 3Rs...
Great tire if you have enough camber in the front to not cord the outer edge prematurely. My rears wear well and evenly rotating side to side. The fronts do better when I flip them on the rim, but, with the sides backwards if flipped, you don't want to get them in any water / rain.
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:41 AM   #39
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The 3R is far superior than the NT01 on the Camaro platform. I recently ran 315/325-18 NT01's, tested them with multiple pressures using a tire pyrometer and could not get them to work. They were roughly 2-4 seconds SLOWER than the 3R. Turn-in is soft and there is a dramatic lack of bite up front with the NT01. They could be a good tire if you want something to just lap in and don't care about times or overall performance. But I will not be running them again, not a fan.

I ran a set on my SS 1LE a year ago with similar experiences.
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:36 AM   #40
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Great input on the 3Rs. Thanks!

How 'bout longevity? Are the 3Rs closer to R7s or NT01s on the wear spectrum?
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:49 AM   #41
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Great input on the 3Rs. Thanks!

How 'bout longevity? Are the 3Rs closer to R7s or NT01s on the wear spectrum?
Well, that is the downside of them. I will only get about 6-7 sessions out of the front tires before the inside cords. This happens to be a known problem with the ZL1 1LE, which, I think, is completely unrelated to camber. The NT01's appear to last a tad bit longer, likely due to them having more tread depth.

I have a new set of 18's just laying around right now because I was so unhappy with the performance of the Nt01's, which is one of the few tires that comes in proper sizing for 18's.

Until I can find a decent set of 18" tires I will be going back to stock 19's and 3R's. Except, I will run 2 sets of front wheels and swap fronts after each session. This way I get about 14 sessions per "set" .
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:56 AM   #42
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Yikes!

Is excessive inside wear an issue with ZL1 as well as the ZL1 1LE?

This isn't our primary track car, but 6-7 sessions isn't even two trackdays...
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