[oldman]

Originally Posted by Red Hot ZL1

My first car was a '68 442. Top speed of 45mph. A 16 year old (me) tore the engine out and rebuilt it. It was then surprisingly fast. A very good friend had a '70 GS Stage 1. Both stock, tuned, and automatics, I never had any problems out running him.

My old bros were into Mustangs. I really like Mopars so 340 and 440 were my engines. To be honest my primary competition were all 396, usually in Novas. I had a 440 Dart for the most part. The Dart was a faster / quicker car in general. In specific the 396 well driven could take me. The problem with the 396 was either a bog or blow the tire away issue. The 440 auto Dart had a broad torque curve and I knew as long as I eased it off the line and let the foot control the throttle, 90% of the time it was a win for me.

It was the "older" more mature guys that had Stage 1 and 442 and they really were not midnight racing at the local beach road.

My 440 build in the 70s was: 440, mopar template ported heads, 292 purple shaft, torker manifold, stall 727, Dana 60 with 4.10 (wanted the 3.54 could not afford them), HP manifolds (they fit) or 2 and 1/4 Hooker fender well headers, 15x9 (may have been 8.5) cop rims widen by Stockton wheel, painted body color, curb feelers, cop drilled baby hub caps, L60s Pos-O-Traction, 12.2 at 116 MPH hard into the rev limiter about 50 feet before the traps, frame connectors, leaf springs relocated inboard, bench seat and I put in the column shifter, cause the GF liked it that way. Never try to shift this bad boy yourself... LOL. I'd blow out the thrush mufflers every 6 months... It was untill flowmaster came on the scene that I could get a muffler that would not puke it guts every 6 months. All the plates would collapse and plug the muffler till BOOOOM....

Originally Posted by Red Hot ZL1

My second car was a '70 340 Duster, 4 speed. I am not sure if I still have the time slips (Green Valley Raceway in Dallas) but I did get it down to the very low 13s. 3x2 carbs, Dana 60 rear, L60x15s.

You must be a great tuner... Must have been beautiful. You got the same Mopar Perf Dana as I got... It was "cheap" and the correct width, I believe I had to weld on the spring perch and set the pinion snubber. I should also note that Mopars with the pinion snubber just got more traction vs any Ponycar that I know of. The GM trailing arm seemed to work well too. Pony car leaf springs with no pinion snubber really had to go with traction bars. The Mopar just needed an adjustable snubber (make your own) and a couple of spring clamps..


The new process 833 with a Mr Gasket shifter was a solid trans.... but it was oh my god slow shifting... like a truck. Go into any M-21 car or T10 and they could just power shift them like butter... Still the Mr Gasket shifter was REALLY my favorite shifter on the 833.

Originally Posted by Red Hot ZL1

None of those cars compare to our cars of today (handling and reliability).

Yep, my stock SS would run with the best in a straight line and when it came to a curve.... well. Also note that NO cars listed had A/C many had manual steering. 440 manual steering, manual brakes

[oldman]

Originally Posted by rocket403

Hi-Performance Cars July 1968 issue ran a RamRod 350 4.66 gear 4sp car weight was 3550lbs with 2 people came off the line at 5500 rpm 13.05 @ 106
The same car ran 12.85 the week before with just a driver. The 350 Olds engine could rev to 6200 stock and with shimmed rockers could rev to 7k

The Olds won the winternationals E/Stock class with a 12.90 @107mph in 68

You have my interest up, there is very little known about the 1968 Ram Rod, 100 cars total, not marketed, just enough built to qualify for racing, cam so big that power brakes could NOT be ordered..

[rocket403]

The RamRod was a Standard Trans only as well.

I picked up a 71 Supreme factory Ram Air car in 89 from a huge Olds guy just outside of Toronto, found out after the car was sold that is was a special order 4 sp supreme Ram Air like a one of one, the guy that I bought it off well his brother was somehow involved with Olds and Batton. I was introduced to him and was shown his custom ordered 70 W31 factory race ready Olds, he had raced it at the tacks in Ontario for many years, it was bone stock bench 4sp W27 rear with 14k original miles on it.

[oldman]

so this should be the first muscle car era small block on the list. what were the production numbers 1968, 1969 and 1970.

Found this
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...rature-129509/

It does confirm manual trans only, even though the above post shows the W-31 having a turbo-hydro

[rocket403]

Total Production RamRod/W31

1968 500-700 conflicting numbers
1969 913
1970 1352 355 with W27 rear 155 F85 Post cars

Note the car that I was talking about was a 1970 F85 W27 W31 so it was a low production W31.

[oldman]

please post all know road test, I'll look them form my collection. I think that 1989 should be the limit. Maybe we can actually fix this list that is incorrect, it has been the gospel way too long.

[rocket403]

I have a large collection of magazines from 1967 to 89 would need to see what I have in that for 1/4 mile times

[oldman]

Originally Posted by rocket403

I have a large collection of magazines from 1967 to 89 would need to see what I have in that for 1/4 mile times

sounds like me. the only hit I got so far is Muscle car review 1988 December.... As stateted, the list needs to end by 1989 as we get into too many issues like should the Tesla be in there?

[rocket403]

Here are some 1/4 mile times
Hot Cars Feb 69
69 SS 396 Chevelle 14.7 101mph
69 428CJ Fairlane 14.5 99mph

Car Life Sept 69
69 AMC SCscrambler 14.2
69 Grand Prix SJ 14.1 95.3
69 427 Vette 14.58 98.57
69 Dart 340 14.8 96
69 W31 14.9 96
69 Mustang Mach 1 428 13.9 103.32
69 Super Bee 383 14.73 95.5
69 Charger 500 426 13.68 104.8
69 Boss 302 14.85 96
69 Z28 15.12
69 Super Bee 440x6 13.8

Performance Car Guide 72

72 Z28 14.50 100
72 Phase 3 SS-454 Camaro 11.95 111
72 SS-454 Chevelle 15.7 93
72 LT-1 Vette 14.55 100
72 455 GTO 14.10 100
72 Formula 400 FB 14.58 97
72 Trans AM 455 13.90 102
72 442 W30 455 14.30 100
72 GS stage 1 455 14.60 101
72 440x6 Road Runner 14.40 102
72 Boss 351 13.90 101
72 429 Montego GT 15.22 95
72 401 SST Javelin 14.60 98

Hi Po Cars 72

72 442 W30 455 14.37 98

Super Cars 1973

73 Nova SS 350 15.85 91
73 350 Camaro 14.50 100
73 Motion Vega 350 12.70 105
73 454 Chevelle 15.10 97
73 Monte Carlo 454 15.70 91
73 Vette 454 14.65 102
73 Trans Am 455 13.50 104
73 455 SD GTO 13.70 103
73 455 Grand Am 13.90 103
73 455 Grand Prix 14.70 96
73 455 Cutlass S 14.80 98
73 440 Charger 14.94 92

[oldman]

looks like the Boss 351 is the only show room stock small block to do a 13.90 and break 100 MPH at 101.
Oh and the 2018 Pure stock Drag has a 12.8 for the Ram Rod:

I found many references to the "high performance car" July 1969 test of a Ram Rod, but have not found the magazine or article. could it be "hot cars"?

we have seen this:
Noted auto journalist Roger Huntington wrote an article about what these engines actually put out; here is the list: (All are gross hp & torque figures.)

Engine------------------Advertised----Rated----------True
------------------------HP @ RPM---- Torque@ RPM-- HP @ RPM

Buick 455 Stage 1-------360@5000----510@2800------420@5400
Camaro Z/28 302--------290@5800----290@4200------310@6200
Chevelle 396 L-78-------375@5600----415@3600------400@5600
Corvette 427 L-88-------430@5200----450@4400------480@6400
Mopar 340-4 bbl---------275@5000----340@3200------320@5600
Mopar 440-Magnum------375@4600----480@3200------410@5400
Mopar 440 Six-Pack------390@4700----490@3200------430@5600
Mopar 426 Street Hemi---425@5000----490@4000------470@6000
Mustang Boss 302--------290@5800----290@4300------310@6200
Ford 351-4 bbl Cleveland--300@5400----380@3400------340@5600
Mustang Boss 351--------330@5400----370@4000------360@6000
Mustang 428 Cobra-Jet---335@5200----440@3400------410@5600
Mustang Boss 429--------375@5200----450@3400------420@5600
Oldsmobile 455 W-30-----370@5300----500@3600------440@5600
Oldsmobile 350 W-31-----325@5400----360@3600------350@5800
Pontiac Ram Air 400------366@5100----445@3600------410@5600

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Notes:
-The most underrated was probably the 428 Cobra Jet engine... its official rating of 335 hp was a joke, especially considering that the 390-4 bbl engine was also rated at 335 hp.

-The second-most underrated was probaby either the Mopar 426-Hemi or the 340-4 bbl. The 340-Six Pack was not listed, but with an advertised hp of 290@5000 rpm and torque of 340@3200 rpm, I would guess about 335 hp @ 6000 rpm.

-The actual power output of that 455 Olds W-30 is very impressive... 440 hp!



I don't see the LT1, should be about 330 tp 360 HP depending on how bad the actual stock exhaust manifold and single muffler exhaust were / was...

[zx9rmal]

FWIW, I always loved this article. Loved my '69 Z/28.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ed-comparison/

[oldman]

I will have to scan the article from an old pamphlet (republished in Engine 1970), this is where the take a DZ 302 vs Boss 302, to see which one can produce the most power. The DZ 302 ended with ported heads a solid cam-am cam, dual Holley's on a crossram, 417 engine HP @ 7200 RPM, the Boss ended up with ported heads, a solid cam that could not idle below 1200 RPM, dual inline 4BBL autolites (like weber down drafts), cross boss intake, 476 HP @8000 RPM, then they went to 2.5" ID mechanical FI stacks got 496 HP @ 8200 RPM.

[rocket403]

Here is some early times

Motor Trend Nov 1952

52 Olds 88 19.0
52 Buick Roadmaster 20.2


Motor Trend June 1954

54 Ford V8 20.4 @ 68mph
54 Olds Super 88 18.0 @ 74mph
54 Packard Clipper 19.7 @ 70mph

[rocket403]

Here is some more

SuperCars 70 1/2

69 303 Trans Am 13.80 102
70 455 Grand Prix SJ 14.90 95
70 455 GTO 13.90 103
70 Boss 302 Mustang 13.50 103
70 429 Super Cobra 13.30 106
70 428 Cougar Eliminator 13.94 101
70 429 Cyclone Spoiler 14.40 100
70 340/440 Challenger 14.80/13.75 95/104
70 440 Super Bee 13.74 102
70 426 Cuda 13.65 106
70 440 GTX 13.90 102
70 390 AMX 14.10 95
70 390 Javelin SST 14.32 95

Car and Driver Feb 1970

AC Cobra 289 13.73 101
70 Boss 302 Mustang 14.93 93
70 454 SS Chevelle 13.81 103.8
70 Duster 340 14.39 97

Hi Performance Cars Oct 1967

67 Riviera GS 16.10 87
67 Royal Bobcat GTO 13.40 108
67 442 400ci 14.10 109