[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

People complaining about the fuel efficiency of a factory 760 hp car? Grasping at straws. Anyway, C&D tested the ZLE vs GT500 CFTP vs Challenger Hellcat Redeye:

ZLE: 3,886 lbs; 14 mpg
GT500 CFTP: 4,059 lbs (not the 4225 lbs that everyone keeps incorrectly quoting) and 13 mpg
Challenger Hellcat Redeye: 4,529 lbs, 14 mpg.

I'm not sure how the most powerful, heavy car got mpg as good as the ZLE and better than the GT500 - must have something to do with the gearing and some sort of fuel management strategy, but I'm just speculating.

I do find it funny that everyone keeps talking about how heavy the GT500 is (I understand the base model is about 80 lbs heavier than the CFTP, just like the ZL1 A10 is heavier than the ZLE version), when in CFTP vs ZLE, they are only 173 lbs difference (4059 vs 3886 lbs). Yes, it's heavier than the ZLE, but it's no Hellcat.

Not for nothing, but I'd gladly take 1 mpg less for a 132 mph trap speed in the CFTP over the ZLE's 124 mph with the A10. Not to mention the CFTP hit 160 mph in 18.1 sec vs the ZLE 23.6 sec.

Like black stated, fuel efficiency wasn't even discussed, conversation was fuel tank size which is 16 gallons from my internet searches.

The 4225lbs I've always referred to was the standard gt500, which is the correct weight. Yes the cftp is leaner just like the zle is lighter than the standard zl1. I've never talked about the cftp weight because I've never personally seen them, at the dealer or in the wild.

Also of note, the a10 zl1 gets better mpg's than the 14 mpg you've stated. Maybe the zle a10 gets 14 mpg's

I'm gonna hammer this point until blue in the face, mostly because cost to buy and cost of ownership matter to most of us. The STANDARD gt500 is 115k from what I've seen, I can't imagine what kind of markup they will put on a cftp.

Strictly a question to you Idaho, would you purchase a cftp gt500 if it costs twice as much as Zle? I have no problem admitting the gt500 is a nice car for msrp, but adding an additional 30-50k for standard/cftp 500 is absurd when you consider its competition at that price.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Evansa22

Like black stated, fuel efficiency wasn't even discussed, conversation was fuel tank size which is 16 gallons from my internet searches.

The 4225lbs I've always referred to was the standard gt500, which is the correct weight. Yes the cftp is leaner just like the zle is lighter than the standard zl1. I've never talked about the cftp weight because I've never personally seen them, at the dealer or in the wild.

Also of note, the a10 zl1 gets better mpg's than the 14 mpg you've stated. Maybe the zle a10 gets 14 mpg's

I'm gonna hammer this point until blue in the face, mostly because cost to buy and cost of ownership matter to most of us. The STANDARD gt500 is 115k from what I've seen, I can't imagine what kind of markup they will put on a cftp.

Strictly a question to you Idaho, would you purchase a cftp gt500 if it costs twice as much as Zle? I have no problem admitting the gt500 is a nice car for msrp, but adding an additional 30-50k for standard/cftp 500 is absurd when you consider its competition at that price.

A GT500 is about $75-80k MSRP, but some dealers are marking them up more than others. There's one local to me right now brand new for sale for $86,500k.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00010557346678


I agree with you though, the GT500 isn't worth the extra money over a ZL1 unless you can get one at MSRP.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

People complaining about the fuel efficiency of a factory 760 hp car? Grasping at straws. Anyway, C&D tested the ZLE vs GT500 CFTP vs Challenger Hellcat Redeye:

ZLE: 3,886 lbs; 14 mpg
GT500 CFTP: 4,059 lbs (not the 4225 lbs that everyone keeps incorrectly quoting) and 13 mpg
Challenger Hellcat Redeye: 4,529 lbs, 14 mpg.

I'm not sure how the most powerful, heavy car got mpg as good as the ZLE and better than the GT500 - must have something to do with the gearing and some sort of fuel management strategy, but I'm just speculating.

I do find it funny that everyone keeps talking about how heavy the GT500 is (I understand the base model is about 80 lbs heavier than the CFTP, just like the ZL1 A10 is heavier than the ZLE version), when in CFTP vs ZLE, they are only 173 lbs difference (4059 vs 3886 lbs). Yes, it's heavier than the ZLE, but it's no Hellcat.

Not for nothing, but I'd gladly take 1 mpg less for a 132 mph trap speed in the CFTP over the ZLE's 124 mph with the A10. Not to mention the CFTP hit 160 mph in 18.1 sec vs the ZLE 23.6 sec.

Having owned a Hellcat, just recently sold after 4 years and now owning a ZL1. I can say that my avg mpg in the Hellcat was about 13mpg in the city and about 24-25mpg on the highway. The ZL1 gets me 15mpg in the city and 22mpg on the highway. I don't know why the ZL1 doesn't do better on the highway compared to the Hellcat but I'm pretty satisfied with the city mileage in the ZL1.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Actually nobody is complaining about the fuel efficiency. If you read and understood the comments (you didn't), you would have saw that what we're talking about is the size of the fuel tank. Where the competing cars have 19+ gallon tanks the GT500 has like a 17 gallon tank which is significant in a car as portly as the GT500 is. Get your facts straight.

Exactly, you were talking about range, which is apparently quite poor in the GT500. Idaho2018, as a mustang fanboy, did not like that being mentioned, so he engaged in a straw man with that bs about mpg instead of addressing what you actually said.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Evansa22

I'm gonna hammer this point until blue in the face, mostly because cost to buy and cost of ownership matter to most of us. The STANDARD gt500 is 115k from what I've seen, I can't imagine what kind of markup they will put on a cftp. .

Couple of guys around here got prices of 105k and 120k respectively for a GT500. You are absolutely correct, the REAL cost matters. When you can buy a ZL1 PLUS another car for the price of JUST a GT500, it means something. Have not seen many of these things on the streets yet, which could mean that not as many people have been dumb enough to pay these absolutely obscene prices for a fake Shelby as some expected. Yes I said fake, because the real Shelby Mustangs were made at Shelby American in 1965 and 1966, and these things are really just a badge package on a Ford. This point is important because the Shelby name is used to raise the price, but that name on the car does not really have the same meaning now as it did in 1966.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

A GT500 is about $75-80k MSRP, but some dealers are marking them up more than others. There's one local to me right now brand new for sale for $86,500k.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00010557346678


I agree with you though, the GT500 isn't worth the extra money over a ZL1 unless you can get one at MSRP.

I'm starting to wonder if they're just not advertising the ADMs just to get people in the door. What a lot of them do is they'll tell you they don't discuss pricing on the phone but will do it only in person. Their ploy is that you'll come in there, see the car, fall in love with it, and then agree to the markups. Which works for some of them I guess. But I personally will not even consider going to a dealership until I know for sure what the price is. Or a price range. I'm gonna call a few more dealerships later today and tomorrow to find out if this is what they're doing.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

I don't know why the ZL1 doesn't do better on the highway compared to the Hellcat ...

Tires.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

Tires.

What about them?

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm starting to wonder if they're just not advertising the ADMs just to get people in the door. What a lot of them do is they'll tell you they don't discuss pricing on the phone but will do it only in person. Their ploy is that you'll come in there, see the car, fall in love with it, and then agree to the markups. Which works for some of them I guess. But I personally will not even consider going to a dealership until I know for sure what the price is. Or a price range. I'm gonna call a few more dealerships later today and tomorrow to find out if this is what they're doing.

The GT500 I quoted above is with 6.5K ADM. I have seen some dealers though showing these cars at MSRP and you're right, they aren't selling them at that price, they just want to get you in the door. That being said, the fact that this local GT500 is only going for 6.5K over MSRP tells me that ADM is already starting to fall on these cars. In a few months...COVID willing, we should start to see them much closer to MSRP. The same thing is happening with the 2020 C8 Corvette already. They were going for 110-115K 6 months ago, now they're starting to come down as well. I have a local dealer trying to sell one for 115K and its been sitting on the lot for almost a month now. About 6 months ago, that car would have been gone in a day.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

What about them?

ZL1 tires are bigger and stickier than the hellcat ... so there is much more rolling resistance and thus worse gas mileage at higher (highway) speeds.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

ZL1 tires are bigger and stickier than the hellcat ... so there is much more rolling resistance and thus worse gas mileage at higher (highway) speeds.

I had a feeling you were going there but no, a widebody Hellcat has 305/35/20s all around. That's more rolling resistance than the ZL1s stock tires. In fact, my Hellcat had 295s on the front and 335s on the rear with a custom set of wheels and it still got better highway gas mileage than the ZL1.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

ZL1 tires are bigger and stickier than the hellcat ... so there is much more rolling resistance and thus worse gas mileage at higher (highway) speeds.

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

I had a feeling you were going there but no, a widebody Hellcat has 305/35/20s all around. That's more rolling resistance than the ZL1s stock tires. In fact, my Hellcat had 295s on the front and 335s on the rear with a custom set of wheels and it still got better highway gas mileage than the ZL1.

I agree with you both. The ZL1 does have much stickier tires than the ZL1. They are world's apart. But the HC can be optioned with bigger tires.

There could be many different reasons why the HC gets seemingly better MPGs than the ZL1. However I have not noticed any major difference. Apparently the same can't be said about the GT500 as far as gas stops is concerned due to the much smaller capacity the tank has. I wonder if there was some reason Ford went with that small tank? I mean, maybe they didn't factor it in to the construction of the S550 so there was no room to make it bigger. Which kinda makes me wonder if Ford used any forethought at all with the GT500. I mean, if they were thinking ahead then this would have been accounted for like it is with the HC and ZL1.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I agree with you both. The ZL1 does have much stickier tires than the ZL1. They are world's apart. But the HC can be optioned with bigger tires.



There could be many different reasons why the HC gets seemingly better MPGs than the ZL1. However I have not noticed any major difference. Apparently the same can't be said about the GT500 as far as gas stops is concerned due to the much smaller capacity the tank has. I wonder if there was some reason Ford went with that small tank? I mean, maybe they didn't factor it in to the construction of the S550 so there was no room to make it bigger. Which kinda makes me wonder if Ford used any forethought at all with the GT500. I mean, if they were thinking ahead then this would have been accounted for like it is with the HC and ZL1.

I feel like the Mustang tank is realistically only fit for the Ecoboost models. A V8 with a 60 L/15.9 US gal tank isn't gonna be enough. In fact, that's smaller than the gas tank on the Mazda6 2.5T I am driving now. That's the gas tank capacity you find on most midsize Sedans with much smaller engines.

Maybe it was done for weight reduction, but IMO that tank size would make me paranoid on road trips.

Sent from toaster or something

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

I have not seen a test that comes out and says exactly what the real-world GT500 fuel economy is, but I have heard ~100 mile range, that would make for well under 10 mpg avg, about double the gas a ZL1 would use. I have a hard time believing it could be that bad, but otoh tests have said it's unbelievably bad.

OK, ok, I should have quoted this message in my response about mpgs. He mentioned under 10 mpg for the GT500 (which is probably true for all of these cars on a track). I was quoting the C&D article that showed the mpgs are pretty similar between a GT500 and a ZLE. 1 mpg difference in their tests. I wasn't addressing the smaller tank, which obviously is an issue in the GT500 on a track.

I was a little aggressive w/ the "complaining" comment, I give y'all that...