[ICTsccaCamaro]

I battled with ice mode on both of my 5th gen Camaros and am happy to report I have never once had ice mode on my ZLE

[SCCAForums]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Sorry about that! And Thanks for letting me know this!

What exact Tire Type and track brake pad type did you have on your ZLE? (I’m hoping you had Hawk 60’s or 70’s like me because that would be a common factor and hence fixable)

Similar, performance brakes, I typically run G-Loc R6 (AutoX) or R8 (Track and AX).

And while I know this is subjective, how bad was the ice mode hard pedal? Can you describe your experience please? Severity? Frequency etc… Thanks

In order of magnitude, when I think of my 3 cars, I can say this... Autox is far more inducive to create the Ice Mode conditions, on all models. But the ZLE resists it the most. I'm not sure if there is significant difference between ZLE and ZL1 cal, as I didn't AX my ZLE.

On the road course, on factory ZLE pads, I don't recall any ice mode. And I never left foot broke.

On the road course with race pads, I could get the hard pedal/ice mode, but very rarely. Didn't track that car much.

Then with my ZL1, that I modified to have all the ZLE items, diff controller, bushings, A10 pan, bumper, aero etc... and always ran race brake pads. I would only get ice mode if I left foot broke the car... (on road course) so I would do my best to refrain from left foot braking. As for AX... it was still very rare for my 2020 ZL1 to get ice mode... 10% of the time at the very most. However, when I would do 'Speed Stop' events... where you do full acceleration to full braking... I'd get Ice Mode about 20% of the time.

When you then compare to my SS 1LE, which has factory controllers, but ZLE brake calipers/rotors... I would get Ice Mode frequently during Auto X and Speed Stop... so much so... that my son was scared to drive the car... as we both would DNF finishes of AX courses that went from full throttle to full braking. So I've really had to slow down my transition from full throttle to full brake. On Road Course, the SS 1LE is much better, almost as good as ZL1, but AX & Speed Stop has been an ongoing challenge, much worse than ZL1/ZLE.

And when you say the ZLE exhibit this less than other models, I assume that means both severity and frequency?

I think you'd be extremely pleased/impressed with a ZLE car... especially on stock brake pads... and just exhibit some patience from full throttle to full brake.

Unfortunately all GM cars exhibit this at some level in my experience.

Best regards,
Dave

[wakespeak]

Never had ice mode. 3-5 events/yr since 2020 when I got the car. Stock pads and G3Rs.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by SCCAForums

I think you'd be extremely pleased/impressed with a ZLE car... especially on stock brake pads... and just exhibit some patience from full throttle to full brake.

Unfortunately all GM cars exhibit this at some level in my experience.

Best regards,
Dave

My modded car is far beyond the ZLE, and I have the ABS module from a ZLE, so I don’t want to go backwards, but thanks.

Can you let me know what kind of “race pads” you had when you encountered ice mode hard pedal?

I am moving away from the Hawks and was convinced by a seemingly very knowledgable individual who has done a lot of tracking in the sixth GEN Camaro, and has much experience with Hawk pads and icemode who works at KNS brakes, part time, to try the CarboTech XP10 as a compromise.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by wakespeak

Never had ice mode. 3-5 events/yr since 2020 when I got the car. Stock pads and G3Rs.

Thanks, more evidence for me to get less aggressive pads

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by NorthGeorgia

No ice mode - 7K ZLE track miles - primarily Road Atlanta - stock pads/rotors/SRF + 3R tires. Only braking condition to note is lack of heat during first couple laps which can be soft pedal into hardest braking zones. Once tires and brakes have sufficient heat, stock brakes are good for 3-4 time attack flyers but will gradually soften at hardest braking zone (156 to 54). A reduced pace lap and they come back. I also try to focus on smooth threshold brake application and release (vs stomping on them). As comparison, the C6 Z51 would get occasional ice mode at T2 which is immediately after a high-G RH then off camber LH into a quick/short brake zone but I was an overdriving newbie and the car was not always settled.

Thanks, more evidence for me to switch Pads and also work on my driving style and braking at the same time

[ZLElvira]

I have a ZLE A10. Goodyear SC3Rs, Hawk DTC60s front & 70s rear. Stock suspension, custom aligned by GTE-Atlanta and I #DriveItLikeIStoleIt at Road Atlanta mostly.

I have prepped my car with all the standard cooling upgrades, Blackwing deflectors, Castrol SRF and had zero braking issues even after running consistent 1:38-1:41 laptimes, diving into 10A at 150-156mph to a 50-65mph left/right punching it under the bridge.

I bought this car to exclusively track it... it goes against everything I have ever learned in my 30+ years of road racing experience. I have actually learned more about the PTM and Stabilitrak systems by driving it in the mountains than at the track due to the thresholds of speed/tires being different. In the mountains, such as Deal's Gap (318 Curves in 11 Miles), I was able to use the flat-footed approach to punching the throttle to the floor upon corner entry to watch how seamlessly the PTM applies throttle while unwinding the steering wheel at the absolute limit of the PS4S Michelins yet still hitting 1.5-2Gs in cornering!! To make it more interesting, I had three motorcycles following me and while they were dragging knees, I could out-corner the bikes in most every turn. Hard threshold stopping the brake pedal has happened a few times while making unimaginable twists on this stretch of road and with surfaces covered with leaves, moisture and road painted striping... never once did it unsettle the car! It is when doing this, you realize the relationship between the A10's two braking clutches and the E-LSD working seamlessly to make you look better than good!

My background used to be aviation dynamics of auto-pilot systems for Gulfstream Aerospace, Lockheed-Martin, Bombardier and Dassault-Falcon... and yet, I cannot imagine the means of adding these components as parts to your ZL1 and getting them to communicate as if they were there from the factory. My brother owns a very well-known tuning shop and I have access to tap into a lot of what this car is, but for now... its still a learning curve for me.

Here is my livestream from this past weekend at Road Atlanta with a ton of traffic, but even more fun!

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by ZLElvira

I have a ZLE A10. Goodyear SC3Rs, Hawk DTC60s front & 70s rear. Stock suspension, custom aligned by GTE-Atlanta and I #DriveItLikeIStoleIt at Road Atlanta mostly.

I have prepped my car with all the standard cooling upgrades, Blackwing deflectors, Castrol SRF and had zero braking issues even after running consistent 1:38-1:41 laptimes, diving into 10A at 150-156mph to a 50-65mph left/right punching it under the bridge.

I bought this car to exclusively track it... it goes against everything I have ever learned in my 30+ years of road racing experience. I have actually learned more about the PTM and Stabilitrak systems by driving it in the mountains than at the track due to the thresholds of speed/tires being different. In the mountains, such as Deal's Gap (318 Curves in 11 Miles), I was able to use the flat-footed approach to punching the throttle to the floor upon corner entry to watch how seamlessly the PTM applies throttle while unwinding the steering wheel at the absolute limit of the PS4S Michelins yet still hitting 1.5-2Gs in cornering!! To make it more interesting, I had three motorcycles following me and while they were dragging knees, I could out-corner the bikes in most every turn. Hard threshold stopping the brake pedal has happened a few times while making unimaginable twists on this stretch of road and with surfaces covered with leaves, moisture and road painted striping... never once did it unsettle the car! It is when doing this, you realize the relationship between the A10's two braking clutches and the E-LSD working seamlessly to make you look better than good!

My background used to be aviation dynamics of auto-pilot systems for Gulfstream Aerospace, Lockheed-Martin, Bombardier and Dassault-Falcon... and yet, I cannot imagine the means of adding these components as parts to your ZL1 and getting them to communicate as if they were there from the factory. My brother owns a very well-known tuning shop and I have access to tap into a lot of what this car is, but for now... its still a learning curve for me.

Here is my livestream from this past weekend at Road Atlanta with a ton of traffic, but even more fun!

Glad for you that you have not had this issue despite those aggressive brake pads, but part of me was hoping you did have this problem if you know what I mean haha

[GunMetalGrey]

Coby Shield from KNS brakes apparently has a ton of high level competition driving and he said he got rid of his Hawk 70s for this reason, though he was surprised the Hawk 60s were still an issue, since they weren’t for him.

He said to go with Carbo XP10’s if I wanted something better than stock OEM but not as aggressive as the Hawk 60s but could still handle heat well, so that’s what I’ve ordered to try next.

[PJS57]

I had ice mode during an event last season with my (now former) 22' SS 1LE M6. I'll have to dig up the PDR video at some point, but it was a downhill braking zone @ Club Motorsports in NH. I was left foot braking in that corner as there was no downshift required - more evidence that the quick transitions from full throttle to "full" brake are what causes this. Scared the s**t outta me and I was prepping to pound some tire barriers, but thankfully there was enough runoff to gather it back up before anything bad happened. Car was 100% stock except for SRF brake fluid, FYI.

[SCCAForums]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Coby Shield from KNS brakes apparently has a ton of high level competition driving and he said he got rid of his Hawk 70s for this reason, though he was surprised the Hawk 60s were still an issue, since they weren’t for him.

He said to go with Carbo XP10’s if I wanted something better than stock OEM but not as aggressive as the Hawk 60s but could still handle heat well, so that’s what I’ve ordered to try next.

Carbotech is a great pad, I run G-Loc, which are same compound choices, sorta like Chevrolet and GMC truck options, same manufacturer. The 10's for dedicated track use would not be a bad choice.

Because my events require AutoX & Road Course, I actually just run the XP8 (R8 for G-Loc)... very rotor friendly, not grabby at all.

Best regards,
Dave

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Coby Shield from KNS brakes apparently has a ton of high level competition driving and he said he got rid of his Hawk 70s for this reason, though he was surprised the Hawk 60s were still an issue, since they weren’t for him.

He said to go with Carbo XP10’s if I wanted something better than stock OEM but not as aggressive as the Hawk 60s but could still handle heat well, so that’s what I’ve ordered to try next.

I ran XP12's in my car, not sure I would do the XP10 since they are a step down. The carbotech has noticeably much less bite upon initial brake press. The braking distances are still the same, but the 60's really grab much harder at first. Hawks last much longer for me over the carbotech.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

I ran XP12's in my car, not sure I would do the XP10 since they are a step down. The carbotech has noticeably much less bite upon initial brake press. The braking distances are still the same, but the 60's really grab much harder at first. Hawks last much longer for me over the carbotech.

Glad to hear they have less initial bite, that’s what I’m looking for, glad I didn’t go with the XP8 since you say even the 12’s have less initial bite than the Hawks, however I am surprised to hear though that the braking distance was the same, I thought the hawk 60s would be a higher friction Brake pad than the XP 12s

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Glad to hear they have less initial bite, that’s what I’m looking for, glad I didn’t go with the XP8 since you say even the 12’s have less initial bite than the Hawks, however I am surprised to hear though that the braking distance was the same, I thought the hawk 60s would be a higher friction Brake pad than the XP 12s

I use VIR turn 1 as a good reference point. I can brake with the hawks and carbotech just before the 4 marker on street tires and at the 4 marker on slicks.