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Old 01-26-2021, 04:14 AM   #15
Bangkok_ZL1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer01 View Post
3R is probably good for close to 1 sec improvement for every mile of track I'd say (of course depending on the track). Quite a bit stickier and last maybe 25%-35% as long as the 3's. Problem is more stick = more suspension lean, so need stiffer setup and more camber to really use the tire properly. I think regular 3's are a damn good match for a stock street/track ZL1 personally with track alignment settings.
When I hit the track it will be balls to the wall.... I know me.
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Old 01-26-2021, 04:19 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by 20Bluezl1 View Post
I bought SPL parts and still have more on the list. I also have the GMPP bushing kit
I'll change rods and the like, but I won't be able to change the mag dampers. My copilot wife likes the ride. If I change it and makes it any harsher (on Thai roads), she won't be a party to the fun. Long story short, my CC to buy what I need will be debated, instead of rubber stamped.... If I make a minor change and it changed the ride too much then I can change back. Dampers (with import tax and shipping) usually isn't a small amount.
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Old 01-26-2021, 04:29 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by mblum View Post
I 100% agree.

Id put heavy emphasis on the track alignment, it make a very noticeable difference. Track time and more track time. Stock tires work very well.

The only mod I have done is the BMR cradle lock out kit. I definitely could feel the difference on track
My stock tires don't, even when they were new. I will have 2 sets. So I will have new entire wheels to track on. I might go to 19's since everybody said they were lighter. I don't like the idea of having alignment issues each session. The one time used TTY bolts have got to go. I'm in Thailand, I can't just drive down to Chevy and get new parts. each one of those POS TTY bolts, nuts or whatever they are (I forgot), in any applicable use actually, will cost me about 50 bucks a piece. So I need a solid system, especially in the suspension department.
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Old 01-26-2021, 08:33 AM   #18
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You didn't mention what type of past track experience you had. If you have tracked cars in the past and have developed a good driving technique certain mods will help you. If this is your first track car I would suggest minimum mods until you have seat time.

This car is far more capable than 95% of the people driving it on the track, including myself. If you have a lot of previous experience this may apply for you.

One thing I have found driving a high HP heavy car on the track requires a change in driving technique. Over drive it and you will go through consumables much faster. Learn to manage weight transfer is key.

I agree the stock tires are less than impressive on the street. Run them at the track with proper air pressure and the are impressive for the tire category they fall into.

Also, I have yet to loose my alignment settings at the track, ifi stepped up to a slick te extra grip may cause that.
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Old 01-26-2021, 10:41 AM   #19
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Not to sound disrespectful, but I question how much track experience you have. I personally have 20 ish autocross and road course experience and even then, with a ‘low’ 455 hp 1LE, I do not drive balls to the wall. I don’t think you will either in a 650hp ZL1.

My recommendation order for a newer person would be:
SRF fluid
Seat time
Track alignment
Seat time
Rear lockout kit
Seat time

If you find yourself pushing the car more, at that point consider making other suspension upgrades. For now, the car doesn’t really need much other than for you, or any driver, to be a better driver.

Last edited by Dabjbr; 01-26-2021 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 01-26-2021, 12:39 PM   #20
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I have absolutely zero legit track runs. I do have 7 years in Japan with a 400 horse Rx-7, all street action (some that would scare most people), from 1/2 mile digs to drifting runs, every weekend my EX didn't want to bang, and that was a lot, LOL. and I won't get into the other street experience I have, too wild. I've driven sports cars as a DD in foreign countries that had no seriously enforced laws for over 10 years out of my 43 years of driving (Japan does now), and Thailand is no exception, even drunk drivers pay 30 buck and drive home... I'm now driving in sport with the safeties off, sliding her everywhere; I love it and getting better at this 1100 pound heavier Camaro. Seriously, I'm hoping I will get about 2/3rds out of this car at first in technical driving on the circuit, and will improve from there. I've already consulted some professional track guys to assist me in my learning curve. Nevertheless, learning on inferior equipment (no matter how much better that inferior equipment is for me NOW), or equipment that constantly needs TLC, or equipment that I'll eventually change anyways is not what I want. I just had a compadre that croaked at 53, heart attack. I'm almost 60. I might not have extra time for extra learning laps on a car that will be upgraded later. I will have a faster learning curve when the car's suspension, brakes, traction are a constant, not a variable over the years as I upgrade. I don't want to have to relearn braking, entry, or breaking points. I will upgrade everything to the best it can be now, and learn on her that way. That's exactly why I have retirement savings account, LOL, for bucket items just like this that came up. I'll post the lap times once I start running. Chang Circuit is going to be a fun challenge, lots of technical curves, and some of the best straights on a track.

@mblum, Brother, you probably have no idea the crap tires Australia makes the ZL1 ride on... I have tried them on some cement turns here at speed and they're ok at best. On asphalt they're crap, and Chang Intl Circuit is Asphalt, and it's 100 degrees ambient (track temp???) from April to September. That temp isn't gonna help these Continentals. My DD tires will be Michelins, track we'll see.

@Dabjbr, ok, we have a misunderstanding, my balls to the wall will be the best of my ability, not Jeff Gordon's, nor Michael Schumacher's. Yet, I believe I have SOME ability with lots of indirect experience, well see right. And I'm not offended by much, I was in the Marine Corps back when we were treated like in the beginning of the movie "Full Metal Jacket". I'm not soft, and I don't drive that way, LOL

I'm upgrading everything I can now, aero, suspension, brake fluid and pads (3 long straights in a row, the middle straight is over 1/2 mile, 1000 meters), cooling systems, and will go with Jannetty for his upgrades using efficiency, no pulleys (too hot here), and anything else I believe will help this car track will be a permanent part of the car, I'll do ASAP. I won't change the mag though, the wifey just won't go for it. At least not until I buy her her Cayenne. I don't need 2 Ex's, I really don't want to lose this one, she a Daily Driver, LOL. Every man knows how important that is; clears my thinking so I can work everyday. I probably won't hit the track until summer. If you track a lot, I'd like every upgrade that would help, I'll take care of the seat time, trust me. I might buy a 4th home there. then I'll track every day possible. Homes are cheap here, $50 grand..... less than this car cost me by a lot.
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Old 01-26-2021, 01:31 PM   #21
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I totally understand how you feel in pretty much every aspect you listed. I felt the EXACT same way when I approached the track for the first time. I had years of drag racing, off roading, tons of street racing and doing other things that may not be very wise in an automobile. Hell I can drive a car sideways at 60 MPH smoking the rear tires on the street better than any of my car hobby buddies. NONE of those driving skills or abilities learned from those driving scenarios helped me on the track, if anything it hurt me. I'm telling you this with all honesty because a year later when you look back at a handful of track days you will be thankful.

Being on the track is a humbling experience.

My best advice is to find a day when you can get a lot of 1 on 1 time with an instructor in your car. This is by far the best money you could possibly spend if entering the track scene for the first time. I can guarantee you there is no list of mods, no matter how long, that will give you a more positive outcome than 1 on 1 time with an instructor.

Carrying over street driving habits on the track are the exact opposite of what you want. Those habits can be very hard to break because they feel natural and you will find someone that has experience driving on the track in a car with 350 HP less than you will destroy you on the track. Believe me, I've been there and had my pride hurt more than once before I took a step back and re-approached the art of driving on track. Avoid this at all possible.

Take it or leave it, this is my advice based on dozens of track days in this particular car.
-Get a accurate alignment according to GM's recommended "Track Alignment"
-Get better tires if you feel it's absolutely necessary.
-Upgrade the brake fluid. This may not be needed until you have completed a few track days being you are new to it. The stock brake pads and rotors work very well.
-Keep a close eye on tire air temps, both before and after each session. Note these in a notebook (I keep one in my car just for this). I have learned to feel and can notice if my tires are as little as 3-4 PSI high and how it effects the car's handling characters.
-Get as much advice and in car time with an instructor.
-Keep the car stock for at least the first few track days. If you cannot repeat lap times within .5 seconds (with no traffic of course) then your not ready for mods.

Bottom line, driving a car on the track flat out is absolutely nothing like doing it on the street. I think once you have a few track days under your belt you will totally understand. From there you will grow with each day.

Best of luck, it's a highly addictive activity
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Old 01-26-2021, 02:50 PM   #22
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Do the DOT 4 SRF or HTC 64 or another top brand of your preference and go enjoy yourself before doing anything.

Torque the wheels to 140 before you go and at the track adjust to a starting cold of 28PSI for a target hot of 35-37 in each tire.

Get a few track days under your belt..do the required maintenance and start with a track alignment at that point.

Keep it all OEM for now.. Brakes and tires included. Youll find the stock tire and brakes are way better than your ability to brake late and corner.

Get some real time under your belt and learn how to use the car properly before modding, and see what its costing you in consumables for oil trans and differential pads rotors and tire changes in year.

Go and have a good time first.

Last edited by Snakebt6; 01-26-2021 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 01-27-2021, 01:08 AM   #23
Bangkok_ZL1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mblum View Post
I totally understand how you feel in pretty much every aspect you listed. I felt the EXACT same way when I approached the track for the first time. I had years of drag racing, off roading, tons of street racing and doing other things that may not be very wise in an automobile. Hell I can drive a car sideways at 60 MPH smoking the rear tires on the street better than any of my car hobby buddies. NONE of those driving skills or abilities learned from those driving scenarios helped me on the track, if anything it hurt me. I'm telling you this with all honesty because a year later when you look back at a handful of track days you will be thankful.

Being on the track is a humbling experience.

My best advice is to find a day when you can get a lot of 1 on 1 time with an instructor in your car. This is by far the best money you could possibly spend if entering the track scene for the first time. I can guarantee you there is no list of mods, no matter how long, that will give you a more positive outcome than 1 on 1 time with an instructor.

Carrying over street driving habits on the track are the exact opposite of what you want. Those habits can be very hard to break because they feel natural and you will find someone that has experience driving on the track in a car with 350 HP less than you will destroy you on the track. Believe me, I've been there and had my pride hurt more than once before I took a step back and re-approached the art of driving on track. Avoid this at all possible.

Take it or leave it, this is my advice based on dozens of track days in this particular car.
-Get a accurate alignment according to GM's recommended "Track Alignment"
-Get better tires if you feel it's absolutely necessary.
-Upgrade the brake fluid. This may not be needed until you have completed a few track days being you are new to it. The stock brake pads and rotors work very well.
-Keep a close eye on tire air temps, both before and after each session. Note these in a notebook (I keep one in my car just for this). I have learned to feel and can notice if my tires are as little as 3-4 PSI high and how it effects the car's handling characters.
-Get as much advice and in car time with an instructor.
-Keep the car stock for at least the first few track days. If you cannot repeat lap times within .5 seconds (with no traffic of course) then your not ready for mods.

Bottom line, driving a car on the track flat out is absolutely nothing like doing it on the street. I think once you have a few track days under your belt you will totally understand. From there you will grow with each day.

Best of luck, it's a highly addictive activity
Sorry partner, I'm doing the instruction, and I'll get massive seat time, but I'm not staying with the stock suspension or brake pads. To change my TTY bolts once will be 50 bucks a freak'in time. And I don't need brake fade issues at 165 MPH on my 4th lap. I'll be semi retired soon, so I'll hit the track damn near every time it's available. I already had the notion to rent a pro to assist my learning curve, and I have no problem listening to people that have done the same. But I'll be taking the advise of the people that tell me how to not have to be changing the TTY bolts (Which I hate the sound of that even, one time usage bolts) every time I hit the track, and then again for the massive touring I do. You all get the luxury of going to GM, or the local speed shop, and just changing stuff; I don't. I have the only 6th Gen ZL1 in the country, and GM absolutely won't support my car. Actually, Thai Mechs probably have never seen TTY bolts, and I won't even go into the other stuff I saw. I certainly have never heard of them until I bought this car and got on this forum. I must think ahead a bit. I do not want to be changing stuff unnecessarily just because I need to "earn" my way to a better set-up. I want the best set-up for my situation now. And my situation is multi faceted, it's not just seat time. Example, I've already gone E (although it's not installed yet), because, there is no 93 Oct here. I'm already tired of spending over $300 bucks a month on octane booster. You need to understand my position. You're looking at this from a living in the states perspective where you can get anything at anytime at minimal cost. So I'll do all suspension and brake upgrades now, and learn from there. I appreciate your candidness partner, serious. However, our placement on the globe make my situation vastly different than yours. And if a grandpa with a modded MX-5 beats me down, with my advanced set-up because I'm not as technically experienced, so what. And why does anybody care actually. It's my cash. CASH, Time waiting for parts, customs issues with importing, these are just part of the issues I must deal with. So, I'll catch Mr. MX-5 as I get better, maybe, after my next grandkid, LOL.... I'm not the type that has so much pride that I believe I'll beat all just because I have 700 horses (after the E). I understand that from a drift track. I will enjoy this experience and much as possible without draining as much as possible from my retirement.
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Old 01-27-2021, 02:38 AM   #24
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I've been tracking my cars for 8 years now, time flies. You have no idea what it's like to drive on a track until you do it, I realized that on day 1. No amount of high speed street driving will prepare you for it. Straight line street racing, roll racing etc. do nothing for circuit track skills, probably have a negative effect.

The first thing for beginners is learning track rules and etiquette--track entry/exit, flags, passing, what to do/not do when you lose control, not driving like an a-hole, etc. Next come skills like understanding the line, brake zones, car control, etc.

Something I feel like saying, but no reflection on the OP...

Every time I see someone on the street or freeway weaving dangerously through traffic in a high powered car I know one thing is 99% certain, they have not learned to drive on a track but they believe that if they tried it they'd be great.
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Old 01-27-2021, 03:17 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by SFV1LE View Post
I've been tracking my cars for 8 years now, time flies. You have no idea what it's like to drive on a track until you do it, I realized that on day 1. No amount of high speed street driving will prepare you for it. Straight line street racing, roll racing etc. do nothing for circuit track skills, probably have a negative effect.

The first thing for beginners is learning track rules and etiquette--track entry/exit, flags, passing, what to do/not do when you lose control, not driving like an a-hole, etc. Next come skills like understanding the line, brake zones, car control, etc.

Something I feel like saying, but no reflection on the OP...

Every time I see someone on the street or freeway weaving dangerously through traffic in a high powered car I know one thing is 99% certain, they have not learned to drive on a track but they believe that if they tried it they'd be great.
Not sure I'd be great, but I'm gonna have a great time trying.... Learning and driving. Can I handle a car, I think so. Can I carry speed through a corner, I'm probably not that good at it yet. But I think this thread has gotten off track. This thread was all about suspension issues for me here in Thailand as I go to a serious track, and seems to have turned into a "make sure the street drifter knows he's a circuit track novice with zero actual track time". I should have posted the aforementioned when the first person asked me about track time. I replied nicely and honestly, that I'm not a "tracker' yet, nevertheless; the topic shifted. I'll make sure to ask for novice track recommendations on a post just before I go to Chang Circuit so that I can get some good recommendations. If this thread is any indication, I'm sure I'll get lots of feedback, LOL. In the meantime, I'll take some of the prior poster's recommendations and add them to what I've learned on this forum concerning this cars suspension, thanks.
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Old 01-28-2021, 12:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bangkok_ZL1 View Post
Not sure I'd be great, but I'm gonna have a great time trying.... Learning and driving. Can I handle a car, I think so. Can I carry speed through a corner, I'm probably not that good at it yet. But I think this thread has gotten off track. This thread was all about suspension issues for me here in Thailand as I go to a serious track, and seems to have turned into a "make sure the street drifter knows he's a circuit track novice with zero actual track time". I should have posted the aforementioned when the first person asked me about track time. I replied nicely and honestly, that I'm not a "tracker' yet, nevertheless; the topic shifted. I'll make sure to ask for novice track recommendations on a post just before I go to Chang Circuit so that I can get some good recommendations. If this thread is any indication, I'm sure I'll get lots of feedback, LOL. In the meantime, I'll take some of the prior poster's recommendations and add them to what I've learned on this forum concerning this cars suspension, thanks.
I didn't mean any disrespect...just felt like ranting about bad Los Angeles drivers.

As far as suspension, to avoid alignments from TTY bolts you probably only need the toe rods, the other parts might make noise you wont like.

The beauty of this car is you don't need anything else to go nearly as fast as guys in exotics, and if your tires are fresher you can beat them. Tires make the biggest difference, with a sticker set of GY 3R you can do amazing lap times.
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Old 01-28-2021, 06:41 AM   #27
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It sounds like COST is a big factor for you OP. If so, I’d recommend you try the SC3 tires that come on the regular ZL1 instead of the 3R’s. There are guys on here who use up a new set of 3Rs in a single track day. The SC3s are plenty of tire for novice to intermediate track rat. I had 4 track days with multiple sessions each day on my new SC3s and I still have plenty of tread left and no uneven wear. There isn’t much performance difference between the two tires until you are very good on the track. Edit: And I definitely would not go to the track with the Continental street tires. You won’t get within a mile of the car’s track capability with those tires.

I went on the OEM alignment and have no issues there either. Maybe I just got lucky. In stock form with just minor bolt ons my car put down better times than 90% of the cars running out there.

Your car will very likely be more capable than you are able to push it at first. That’s no disrespect, that’s just how capable these cars are. Personally I think you are wasting money to upgrade the suspension at this time, until you have enough seat time to know how capable you are of maxing then performance of the car in stock form. It’s quite good right out of the box.

In retrospect, I am glad that I got to know my car on the track in stock form first. It allowed me to better gauge where I wanted to spend money later to make improvements. The only suspension mod I plan to make now is the BMR cradle lockout kit. Performance wise I’m doing e60, bolt ons (intake and exhaust) and coolant reservoir for cooling. I’ll re-align when needed but hasnt happened yet.

Good luck.
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Last edited by CW3SF; 01-28-2021 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 01-28-2021, 07:57 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by CW3SF View Post
It sounds like COST is a big factor for you OP. If so, Iíd recommend you try the SC3 tires that come on the regular ZL1 instead of the 3Rís. There are guys on here who use up a new set of 3Rs in a single track day. I had 4 track days with multiple sessions each day on my new SC3s and I still have plenty of tread left and no uneven wear. There isnít much performance difference between the two tires until you are very good on the track.

I went on the OEM alignment and have no issues there either. Maybe I just got lucky. In stock form with just minor bolt ons my car put down better times than 90% of the cars running out there.

Your car will very likely be more capable than you are able to push it at first. Thatís no disrespect, thatís just how capable these cars are. Personally I think you are wasting money to upgrade the suspension at this time, until you have enough seat time to know how capable you are of maxing then performance of the car in stock form. Itís quite good right out of the box.

In retrospect, I am glad that I got to know my car on the track in stock form first. It allowed me to better gauge where I wanted to spend money later to make improvements. The only suspension mod I plan to make now is the BMR cradle lockout kit. Performance wise Iím doing e60, bolt ons (intake and exhaust) and coolant reservoir for cooling. Iíll re-align when needed but hasnt happened yet.

Good luck.
I concur with CW3SF's tire recommendations. The non-R Supercar3's are the best bang for buck option available for these cars.
I believe you stated somewhere in this thread that you planned to replace the Aussie spec Continentals with Cup2's. I read somewhere on the forums where a guy with a ZL1 replaced his Supercar3's with Cup2's and was a second or so slower. He couldn't make sense of that and neither can I, but it probably warrants a little research before dropping comparatively big bucks on the Michelins. Here in the states, they're twice the price of the Supercar3's
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