[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Well considering Ford just killed the 350GT with it's wonderful engine it's doubtful GM puts a rumored Corvette engine in the Camaro for a year or two. Big development work.

Also reducing the weight significantly as someone suggested would be HUGELY expensive.

The car OP describes is basically a $100,000 Camaro. So if you are spending $100,000 on a car would you want a Camaro Z/28 or a C8 that will still blow it off the road with the same engine?

There just doesn't seem like a good business case for a Gen6 Z/28.

Biggest hope I think is an (arguably) 7th gen car with GM's first true performance EV propulsion system. Whether you call it a Camaro is another issue, but that's my hope and prediction for 23 or 24.

I will buy one, and there are more like me, but GM does not want me and my friends as a customers.

[396ssrat]

Maybe they can resurrect the name Cameo.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS@Gen5diy

I will buy one, and there are more like me, but GM does not want me and my friends as a customers.

I remember a lot of people saying that last time and in the end they got tagged with the 20% off to get them off the lots lol

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I remember a lot of people saying that last time and in the end they got tagged with the 20% off to get them off the lots lol

That’s because GM has never done anything to push the Camaro as a top tier performance car. You have people paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for GT3RSs with cloth pull tabs instead of door handles. GMs handling of the Camaro has been terrible for decades. Ford has built countless halo variants of the Mustang and people are willing to pay for them. GM builds one, overestimates the demand, then cans the idea because the first one wasn’t a massive success. Because of their incompetence, the Camaro is just as likely to be canceled as it is to see a new generation.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

That’s because GM has never done anything to push the Camaro as a top tier performance car. You have people paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for GT3RSs with cloth pull tabs instead of door handles. GMs handling of the Camaro has been terrible for decades. Ford has built countless halo variants of the Mustang and people are willing to pay for them. GM builds one, overestimates the demand, then cans the idea because the first one wasn’t a massive success. Because of their incompetence, the Camaro is just as likely to be canceled as it is to see a new generation.

Probably because Ford's affordable halo car is the Mustang. Ford GT is the halo car, but it's out of reach of most people. Ford doesn't have much to worry about, in that case. A $100k Mustang is till nothing compared to GT's price tag and it also won't touch the performance of GT.

Meanwhile, GM's halo car is the Corvette and it's considered affordable. Of course GM will protect the Corvette sales first.

Speaking of Porsche, the less-than-optimal manual gear ratios on the GT4 might also have influenced by protecting the halo car(911 GT3). BMW also did it with M2C and M4. Same engine, tuned differently so M2C has less power. Camaro SS 1LE can supposedly give C7 Z51 a run for its money on the track, so I'd imagine Chevy would want to protect the C7 sales by restricting the Camaro. Can't have a car that beats the halo product.

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[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Probably because Ford's affordable halo car is the Mustang. Ford GT is the halo car, but it's out of reach of most people. Ford doesn't have much to worry about, in that case. A $100k Mustang is till nothing compared to GT's price tag and it also won't touch the performance of GT.

Meanwhile, GM's halo car is the Corvette and it's considered affordable. Of course GM will protect the Corvette sales first.

Speaking of Porsche, the less-than-optimal manual gear ratios on the GT4 might also have influenced by protecting the halo car(911 GT3). BMW also did it with M2C and M4. Same engine, tuned differently so M2C has less power. Camaro SS 1LE can supposedly give C7 Z51 a run for its money on the track, so I'd imagine Chevy would want to protect the C7 sales by restricting the Camaro. Can't have a car that beats the halo product.

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Well, there is no reason GM couldn't create a halo car that is way ahead of the Camaro. This performance and capability overlap between the Camaro and the Corvette is another sign of their... indecisiveness (in my opinion).

[shaffe]

But everyone told me when the 6th gen came out the gloves are off and they don't protect the corvette haha.

I have said it a few times before when a 6th gen Z comes up and I still stand by it.

1. there's no place for it in the lineup, the ZLE is to good, and the 5th gen Z/28 put them in a hard spot because it was the top dog performance wise on the twisties.
2. they made such a big deal about the 5th gen car being NA that takes the LT5 off the table
3. If the Z/28 got the rumoured FPC from the z06, what else would it need to outperform the ZLE and at what cost.



Only way I see a 6th gen Z/28 is if they have the Z/28 slide down in the line up and be just in between the 1LE and ZL1

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by shaffe

But everyone told me when the 6th gen came out the gloves are off and they don't protect the corvette haha.

I have said it a few times before when a 6th gen Z comes up and I still stand by it.

1. there's no place for it in the lineup, the ZLE is to good, and the 5th gen Z/28 put them in a hard spot because it was the top dog performance wise on the twisties.
2. they made such a big deal about the 5th gen car being NA that takes the LT5 off the table
3. If the Z/28 got the rumoured FPC from the z06, what else would it need to outperform the ZLE and at what cost.



Only way I see a 6th gen Z/28 is if they have the Z/28 slide down in the line up and be just in between the 1LE and ZL1

From an engineering point of view, yes the Camaro took its gloves off, but GM held it back in terms of marketing.

Seeing how SS 1LE is closer to a standard ZL1(not ZL1 1LE), the Z/28 could be an NA ZL1 1LE, being more of a hardcore track car. The Price difference between SS 1LE and ZL1 could potentially allow something like this to exist. Of course, this is just me thinking out loud.

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[shogun37]

Z/28 will only come out when the death of the Gen6 is established as a final year or 2 run. So 2022 if then? I could totally see all the track bits from ZLE being used but for pete's sake GM tell Multimatic to fix the high-speed comp circuit. It's inexcusable to screw that up so badly. It's EASY to do suspension on smooth tracks - takes no thought. Tackle the hard problem. They already know how since they had to think along those lines for the Multimatic-equipped pickup truck.

[396ssrat]

If you look back at what the Malibu ended up being, it should be clear to you that GM may simply end the Camaro's life with a 4 cylinder. Don't forget there is a woman at the helm and she is hell bent on building electric vehicles.

[MR's 2SS]

So I remember wanting a Z/28 when the gen 5s came out. But wasnt in the market then. So now Im coming into this thread and looking back to 2015 and specs and add copy.
What Im thinking is they didnt sell well because they were too expensive. The manufacturers always seem to shoot themselvs in the foot when they have something truly desirable. Like now theres $100,000.00 C-8s available after all this talk about a $60,000.00 super car.
The spec Im reading on a 2015 Z/28 is 505 HP and I forget but pretty good torque. I couldnt find the weight. But the advertisement says starting at $75,000.00.
Considering today $50,000.00ish will buy you a nicely speced out 1LE with "only" 455 horse... Im thinking they could have sold much better at a lower price.
But admittedly I dont know whats really in the car. And I still want one.

[Sindri]

The 5th Gen Z/28 was 200 lbs lighter than the SS or ZL1, but still heavy compared to the Gen 6 cars. But the bigger issue, I think was that it got there with radio delete, AC delete, lightweight wheels, removing sound deadening insulation, etc. It is basically a street legal track car.

There are a few issues with that which probably have a lot to do with low sales. First, is getting over the "Porsche model" - charging more money for less content. Porsche, and BMW with their CSL cars, get away with this because they have an established lineage of stripped track cars and fans know and expect this. The thing is, these are low volume sellers, and the manufacturers know this. Consider how many people think Camaros are awesome vs. how many buy them. Now imagine that only a small percentage of these people think a stripped out race car is cool, and only a fraction of those even interested will actually buy.

Additionally, the last time I know GM was doing delete options on the Camaro was the 1st Gen Z/28, and I think maybe on the 4th Gen 1LE cars? But there's no established track record of GM making track cars, so to the average consumer it looks like a poor value proposition. This goes back to GM marketing not really ever doing much for the cars, at least not trying push their technical capability.

Another issue, which drove cost, is all the special components. The LS7 engine in the Z/28 was originally meant for the Z06 Corvette, and I may be wrong but they were all hand built, and either way a relatively limited production engine compared to "lesser" LS engines, and used some exotic (expensive) components like titanium rods. They also used the comparatively expensive DSSV suspension for the Z, and some crazy light special wheels. I think they may have also gotten the optional Corvette ceramic brakes. It's all really cool stuff, but again, very track focused.

So at the end of the day it was an expensive car, with less content, that nobody really knew about or understood because there's not a strong historical connection, and marketing wasn't doing it's job to educate people.

As other people mentioned, there's always the issue of cannibalizing sales. The Z/28 has to slot in somewhere between the SS and ZL1 in terms of both performance and price. To me that means an SS 1LE but with the Corvette's upcoming DOHC flat plane engine to start, and maybe the ZLE suspension as an option package. A 2SS 1LE stars at $50k, and the ZL1 starts at $65k with the ZLE being about $72k. That means the Z/28 would have to start around $55-57k, with the ZLE suspension pushing it up to around $62-65k. It also needs to make right about 550 HP to slot in the middle - too much less and it may not perform well enough to differentiate it from the SS, and much more and it will approach the ZL1.

[semif18]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

So I remember wanting a Z/28 when the gen 5s came out. But wasnt in the market then. So now Im coming into this thread and looking back to 2015 and specs and add copy.
What Im thinking is they didnt sell well because they were too expensive. The manufacturers always seem to shoot themselvs in the foot when they have something truly desirable. Like now theres $100,000.00 C-8s available after all this talk about a $60,000.00 super car.
The spec Im reading on a 2015 Z/28 is 505 HP and I forget but pretty good torque. I couldnt find the weight. But the advertisement says starting at $75,000.00.
Considering today $50,000.00ish will buy you a nicely speced out 1LE with "only" 455 horse... Im thinking they could have sold much better at a lower price.
But admittedly I dont know whats really in the car. And I still want one.

I had a 2015 Z/28 for a couple of years. Sold it and regret it. I've said this before and it sounds cliche, but the Gen 5 Z/28 is truly "special". You just have to drive one to understand. Pure raw unfiltered analog car with an awesome engine, perfect gearing and linear power curve and fantastic manual transmission. Faster than people give it credit for. I LOVED the simplicity of the car. Manual seats, spartan interior, basic displays. It was built for one purpose and that, in my opinion, made it the baddest Camaro ever built (at least until the ZLE came out, which I own now). I love the ZLE but I actually wish it had the manual seats like the Z/28. If you are thinking of getting a Z/28 I wholeheartedly recommend it. I promise you will not be disappointed. They are awesome!

[genxer]

You're making me wish I bought one a few years ago, when I had $ confidence to pull the trigger. 5th gen's bulk was a hurdle for me. It's a shame they essentially only used the stripped Z/28 & LS7 as a way to market around the largest Camaro.