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Old 01-26-2021, 09:15 AM   #57
Wobble Goat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N Camarolina View Post
I'm not claiming to be a Veloster fan, but have you guys actually read the article the R&T article where they picked it as Performance Car of the Year?

A lot of it hinged on performance that you could actually tap on roads at reasonable speeds, without the need to take it to the track (higher speeds) in order to get the point where the chassis felt lively. Most of the cars tested were so capable that on back roads at reasonable speeds (< 2x the speed limit) they weren't deemed by the reviewers to be much fun.

I think my 1LE is a bit over-kill for roads, but I'm OK with that because I'll be taking it to the track!
Yes, they awarded the car with the least amount of handling of all the cars "performance car of the year".


Put 215s on all the other cars and you'll get that same "chassis feeling lively" comment at slow speeds. Its what makes the FRS, BRZ, Toyota 86 "lively".
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Old 01-26-2021, 01:59 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N Camarolina View Post
I'm not claiming to be a Veloster fan, but have you guys actually read the article the R&T article where they picked it as Performance Car of the Year?

A lot of it hinged on performance that you could actually tap on roads at reasonable speeds, without the need to take it to the track (higher speeds) in order to get the point where the chassis felt lively. Most of the cars tested were so capable that on back roads at reasonable speeds (< 2x the speed limit) they weren't deemed by the reviewers to be much fun.

I think my 1LE is a bit over-kill for roads, but I'm OK with that because I'll be taking it to the track!
That's not a good thought process. I get the logic behind driving a fast car slow vs. driving a slow car fast, but that doesn't make it a better performance car than the others.

If that's the case, can I deem my friend's Mazda6 GT as a better performance car than Veloster N? I mean, the limit is lower, so it will give me more thrills tossing it around, right? The best performance car should then be a rusty old Corolla. Keeps you on edge for that thrill, 24/7!

It's the same argument that says Mustang is more fun than Camaro because the chassis is not as capable and so you hit the limit sooner.

If the award is "the car you will have most fun on the street", then fine, I can see the logic behind it. Calling it straight up Performance Car of the Year, you bet you are gonna get some booing from the readers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ember1205 View Post
So, the performance car of the year honors go to a car that you can drive at the edge of its abilities on public roads? In other words, a ricer...
It's not a ricer. At least it doesn't look as over the top as the Civic Type R.

I like it, it's a hot hatch with a good value, but calling it Performance Car of the Year is a bold move.

Sent from toaster or something
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Old 01-26-2021, 02:06 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownJinX View Post
It's not a ricer. At least it doesn't look as over the top as the Civic Type R.

I like it, it's a hot hatch with a good value, but calling it Performance Car of the Year is a bold move.

Sent from toaster or something
Maybe not as it pertains specifically to the "look", no. I was more thinking about it being a 4 banger with a fart can exhaust that you tune and mod the snot out of as opposed to being built for performance right from the get-go with burly V8.
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Old 01-26-2021, 02:10 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ember1205 View Post
Maybe not as it pertains specifically to the "look", no. I was more thinking about it being a 4 banger with a fart can exhaust that you tune and mod the snot out of as opposed to being built for performance right from the get-go with burly V8.
But then there is the practicality aspect. And the obvious price.

And some people are just into tuning and modding, particularly the younger crowd. That's why the 2.0T Camaro was made.

Sent from toaster or something
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Old 01-26-2021, 02:41 PM   #61
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Yup, R&T seemed to valuing the "driving a slow car fast" concept pretty highly.

The other point they made was steering feel/the driver being connected to the machine. Apparently too many cars these days isolate the driver from the vehicle.

I think the Camaro is very involving and the steering feel at the limit is (I've read but haven't gotten it on track yet - it's new) is great. Unfortunately, they didn't include a Camaro in the PCOTY contest. Their loss (and every reader's loss) I think.
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Old 01-27-2021, 07:58 AM   #62
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Im bringing this back because it was still up on my computer when I logged in....BUT...
Have to do it.
Mini Cooper AND FIAT!!! Ranked higher than Camaro....
Now I have to admit I get the lure of the Mini. But every owner I have spoken to has had problems. So much so that most got rid of the car and went for something else. Never even leased 2 in a row.
And Fiat? Might be fun to drive a while in the sense of beating the living hell out of something and driving it like you hate it... which apparently many owners do.
I wont get into the Ford Chevy, Dodge debate. But those 3 are really the only ones in a class by themselves.
CR does not get these cars at all and their research is weighted by something in addition to owner satisfaction. Its flawed.
And Audi, BMW, or VW are not on my list of cars. Well Maybe an R-12.
Porsche is on the list but I dont really see it as direct competition for a Camaro.. But I can see that and for many reasons a lot of Porches are better cars than a Camaro. Mostly for twice the price. Yet theres no Porsche on that list.
Also, of course no one who needs a mini van to cart the kids around is going to view a Camaro as anything usable. Nor is anyone whos concern for fuel economy ranks higher than performance.
I have seen mostly every car I ever desired rank last on CRs reports. Thats why I dont read them.
That said I am an anachronism... old school... and vehicles have been mostly what I live for my entire 65 years. Now I do focus a lot on the fuel economy gauge in my F-250. It pisses me off that I get over 15 MPG on summer fuel but 12.9 on winter blends the government forces on us here. But a few hundred dollars worth of gas savings per year is not going to make me want to drive a toaster.
Of 14 cars on that list theres only 4 I have ever considered buying at any time.
And I have a really broad diverse list of favorites... Ranging from...
55 Chevy 1/2 ton...of course 32 roadster or coup... a few Vettes... Needle nose Peterbilts... even a Miata... But I guess thats not the full list from CR because the Miata isnt even on there.
The 55 1/2 ton and the Pete are at the top.. Lots of Camaros through the years... GTOs... Buick Riviara...And Ive owned most if not all of those... even a van when I needed that.
But theres no list I could ever come up with where a Hyundai would rank higher than BMW, Audi, Mustang, Challenger, Camaro.... even the Cooper for god sake.
Youtube is filled with vids on Camaro, Mustang, Challenger... with loving owners gushing over their favorite one. If you want a Fiat just buy a Miata. At least the dealers will still be here in a few years.
Sorry... Just off on a rant....
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Old 01-27-2021, 08:30 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBinSD View Post
I searched and read a bunch, but wanted input from the masses on:
1. Are there actually problems with the 2017/2018 SS's? (not the transmission, I'm an M6 dude)
2. Any significant motor or other changes from a 17 or 18 SS to a 20 or 21 LT1?
3. Young stripper or older lady with farkles?
1. Not really no.
2. No.
3. Young. Once they approach 40 they're much less fun, farkles or not.
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Old 04-19-2021, 10:39 AM   #64
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When I bought my GM certified used '16 Camaro SS with 20K miles, these were the issues that I found and all were repaired, most of them by warranty.
1. Passenger vanity mirror light was staying on, even when visor was closed. Corrected.
2. Update the android connection. Dealer wasn't able to fix it. But later on it corrected itself.
3. Shifter rattling while driving in 6th. Non corrected. They say is normal. I got use to it and forgot it.
4. Hood misaligned. Corrected but I had to pay a minimum amount since they didn't considered it as part of the bumper to bumper warranty.
5. Front black wheels paint peel. Both repainted under warranty.
6. Wiper's water pump failed, replaced under warranty.
Afterwards of 5000 miles of driving it, even with those past mentioned issues which I consider minor. I would still rate highly my 6th gen Camaro as a very dependable car , my prior 5th gen ZL1 never had any issues at all.


I could not say the same about my previous '14 Corvette C7 Z51 neither about my '02 Porsche Carrera, both cars were a pain in the.... and loved to be on the repair shop for major issues, not dependable at all.

I used to suscribe for a long time to CR magazine, but found that most of the times it was a hit or miss on their recommended products, their best rated electronics, washers, driers, exercise machines that I bought still failed like any other brand.
Even my wife joked that I trusted their recommendations and were complete fails.
I also noticed that some of my GM and Ford cars had the same long term reliability as good as my Toyotas, Hondas, Mazda or Infiniti vehicles, highly rated by CR cars that I also bought.
I no longer trust their CR ratings.
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