[MuhThugga]

Originally Posted by IMadeYouReadThis

I don't understand man what's your problem with the 6.2 L it's not like GM's on offering a V8. You really think they're going to be able to drop the 5.3 in for the same price as the V6?

I get it you're too big of a man for the V6 but it's not like you can't get a V8 you just have to pay for it

I have nothing against the 6.2 other than GM seems to think it, as well as the rest of the car, is made of gold.

It's okay though. I get that you're just too retarded to understand why someone isn't cross-shopping a V6 trim with a V8, or why people are paying money for the V8 cars; they just aren't doing it in Chevrolet dealerships.

Drawing a line in the sand when there are cheaper options doesn't ****ing work.

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

It was a styling refresh, not a redesign.

Challenger is still riding on the LX/LC chassis that debuted in 2005, which in itself was taken from old Mercedes E-Series. This thing is ancient, but Fiat has decided to pour their money into redesigns for Jeep and Ram which have fat profit margin and higher sales.

It was one hell of a refresh with a completely new interior, the addition of the 8 speed auto, the addition of the Hellcat, and other new trim levels including one that combined the 6.4 with the previous SRT equipment for more affordable 392-equipped vehicle.

So, going back to the original statement, it is not the same car from 2009.

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

I imagine EPA certification for adding a 5.3 manual/automatic would be costly and maybe they can't justify it by needing to sell x number of units to break even. I don't think 5.3 is the answer, I think just taking some content out of the 1SS to lower the price would be more effective.

The ZL1 isn't a daily for me, So for a weekend cruiser it will last for quite a while. For adults the rear seats are worthless, but it's just fine for kids. It may be a different story if I had to deal with it on a daily basis.

Maybe the EPA cost would be great. Maybe it wouldn't be. Cash-strapped FCA seemed to have no problems offering three different V8s for two of their vehicles. Again, I offered the 5.3 as a suggestion for bringing the price of the car down. I do agree that GM's list of standard shit needs to be trimmed.

The 5.3 is still criminally underused and could definitely provide an affordable option for those who want 8 cylinders. You know, kind of like what the 327 did back in the day. Hell, I'd put money on a 5.3 6th Gen being able to match, if not surpass, the 3.6's fuel economy.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by MuhThugga

It was one hell of a refresh with a completely new interior, the addition of the 8 speed auto, the addition of the Hellcat, and other new trim levels including one that combined the 6.4 with the previous SRT equipment for more affordable 392-equipped vehicle.

So, going back to the original statement, it is not the same car from 2009.

So is the 2018 Mustang a redesign? Or how about the 2014 Camaro when the Z/28 came out?

The 2015 Challenger was a MCE which was a cosmetic and hardware update. It's still on the ancient LX platform with the same overall exterior design. The 2015 Mustang was a redesign. The 2016 Camaro is a redesign. The 2013 Malibu was a redesign, the 2014 Malibu was a refresh. The 2014 Silverado was a redesign. The 2016 Silverado was a refresh.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by MuhThugga

I have nothing against the 6.2 other than GM seems to think it, as well as the rest of the car, is made of gold.

It's okay though. I get that you're just too retarded to understand why someone isn't cross-shopping a V6 trim with a V8, or why people are paying money for the V8 cars; they just aren't doing it in Chevrolet dealerships.

Drawing a line in the sand when there are cheaper options doesn't ****ing work.



It was one hell of a refresh with a completely new interior, the addition of the 8 speed auto, the addition of the Hellcat, and other new trim levels including one that combined the 6.4 with the previous SRT equipment for more affordable 392-equipped vehicle.

So, going back to the original statement, it is not the same car from 2009.



Maybe the EPA cost would be great. Maybe it wouldn't be. Cash-strapped FCA seemed to have no problems offering three different V8s for two of their vehicles. Again, I offered the 5.3 as a suggestion for bringing the price of the car down. I do agree that GM's list of standard shit needs to be trimmed.

The 5.3 is still criminally underused and could definitely provide an affordable option for those who want 8 cylinders. You know, kind of like what the 327 did back in the day. Hell, I'd put money on a 5.3 6th Gen being able to match, if not surpass, the 3.6's fuel economy.

I doubt a 5.3 would cost much less in the long run, just would not be worth it . If someone was looking for a V8 I don't know why they wouldn't want the Camaro SS with the LT1. Dodge could offer 10 different V8s they don't build an overall car at the level of the Camaro SS ,i don't care how much horsepower they have,Camaro is light years ahead. Lets see what happens with the challenger when they try to fit that back seat into a Giulia , and how many engines they offer. Let alone the price of it , Camaro is ahead of the curve .

[keon718nyc]

Originally Posted by MuhThugga

It was one hell of a refresh with a completely new interior, the addition of the 8 speed auto, the addition of the Hellcat, and other new trim levels including one that combined the 6.4 with the previous SRT equipment for more affordable 392-equipped vehicle.

So, going back to the original statement, it is not the same car from 2009.

It's a refresh that has gone on for years with the Charger. Getting old and tired regardless what engine or equipment they put in the shit. Hellcat, Demon and whats next the Satin on the same old ass body. Just flaring the fenders and keeping that body style ain't doing it anymore for everybody.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by keon718nyc

It's a refresh that has gone on for years with the Charger. Getting old and tired regardless what engine or equipment they put in the shit. Hellcat, Demon and whats next the Satin on the same old ass body. Just flaring the fenders and keeping that body style ain't doing it anymore for everybody.

And the challengers are selling like a bitch, seems to me the Camaro philosophy isn't working.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

And the challengers are selling like a bitch, seems to me the Camaro philosophy isn't working.

And if we believe the data points a member posts here( data is behind a paywall that he buys into), Challenger is a fleet dump while Camaro tops retail sales.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=156

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

And the challengers are selling like a bitch, seems to me the Camaro philosophy isn't working.

In reality the Challenger sales only have had a very small increase in sale from 2009. They have for the most part been flat. Its the Camaro and Mustang sales that have dropped tremendously to the point of selling at Challenger levels. In saying that, it is still impressive that the Challenger has made these slight increases or at least stayed the same in this environment of cars being out of favor with most consumers thease days.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

And if we believe the data points a member posts here( data is behind a paywall that he buys into), Challenger is a fleet dump while Camaro tops retail sales.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=156

I would love to see monthly totals of fleet and retail sales from Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger to make a comparison who sells the most cars to retail buyers.
Camaro still has fleet sales, but I understand that there isn't as many as the other two. Mustang and Challenger could still possibly sell more retail, Mustang for sure.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

I would love to see monthly totals of fleet and retail sales from Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger to make a comparison who sells the most cars to retail buyers.
Camaro still has fleet sales, but I understand that there isn't as many as the other two. Mustang and Challenger could still possibly sell more retail, Mustang for sure.

Camaro leads retail sales for the year still. That has been posted.


Edit: im not sure if Challenger retail sales were in that post. Looking for it. Anyone know or have it?

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

I would love to see monthly totals of fleet and retail sales from Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger to make a comparison who sells the most cars to retail buyers.
Camaro still has fleet sales, but I understand that there isn't as many as the other two. Mustang and Challenger could still possibly sell more retail, Mustang for sure.

this info is available, there's a member who usually posts it. Camaro has dominated the retail sales, but this type of info doesn't make any waves round here...it's a lost cause really.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Camaro outsells Mustang and Challenger to private purchasers who pay an average of $5,722 more.

Camaro isn’t a great fleet/rental car. Anyone want them to take that crown?

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498
Mustang: $33,792

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581
Challenger: 45,821

Here it is

Not sure about 18

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

I would love to see monthly totals of fleet and retail sales from Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger to make a comparison who sells the most cars to retail buyers.
Camaro still has fleet sales, but I understand that there isn't as many as the other two. Mustang and Challenger could still possibly sell more retail, Mustang for sure.

This was his latest monthly posting.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=18

[newmoon]

TorqueNews

The Camaro is Really Struggling
And that brings us to the ugliest muscle car sales news we have covered in years – January 2018 Camaro sales.

Last month, Chevrolet only sold 2,867 examples of the Camaro. That is the worst sales month for the Camaro since it returned in late 2009 as a 2010 model year vehicle and based on what I have found, it is the first time that the Camaro sold less than 3,000 units in a month during the 5th or 6th generation.

In short, January 2018 was the worst sales month for the modern era of the Camaro, but it was also one of the worst sales totals for any of the muscle cars in the past few years. To be exact, in the years that I have been covering the muscle car segment sales race, the Mustang has never sold fewer than 3,000 units. The last time that the Challenger dipped below 3,000 units was back in January 2014, so in the past four years, the Camaro’s January sales total is the worst in the segment.

Spin this anyway you like this is not good news. The Camaro needs a refresh.

[hotlap]

Not spin. None of these cars are doing well and Challenger is the worst. The difference is fleet/rental sales. The Challenger has the big truck, big back seat, cheap V8 model, etc. So suggesting those features are going to be the difference is questionable.

Fleet! GM is avoiding that.

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498 (-$4,016)
Mustang: $33,792 (-$5,722)

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581 (-4641)
Challenger: 45,821 (-19,401)

Total Sales 2017
Mustang 81,866
Camaro 67,940 (-13,926)
Challenger 64,537 (-17,329)

Percentage of Total Sales that are Fleet/Rental 2017
Camaro 4%
Mustang 26% (+22%)
Challenger 29% (+25%)