[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

Camaro needs to be equally priced or slightly lower in every model category compared to Mustang and Challenger. Camaro is more expensive IE base SS and base GT, or base 4 banger turbo stang vs base 4 banger turbo Camaro. Camaro's are better cars, but money talks especially cars in the 26k to 36k range.

Maybe Ford and Dodge should build there cars at the same level as the alpha platform . I bet that would put a twist in pricing .

[MrRuss]

Originally Posted by MuhThugga

Like I said before: it's great at performance and sucks at everything else.

And customers have moved on...to the more affordable Mustangs and Challengers with V8s. Why? Because not everyone is looking strictly at horsepower numbers and there are those who would like to simply have a V8.

Drawing a line in the sand doesn't work when there are cheaper alternatives that give people what they want.

Having just gone through the comparison process and settled on the Camaro 2SS, I couldn't disagree more. The Camaro was just better. By a wide margin? No, but I liked it better on many levels (and so do most of the big auto magazine reviewers). Yes the equivalent Mustang or Challenger were a little less $$ but not enough to sway me.

FYI, I think the 4-cyl turbo needs to be larger and more HP/TQ. This is where Mustang is better, that 2.3L Turbo is pretty good. GM should develop a ~2.5L Turbo for the Camaro and mid size cars/SUV's. The 2.5 Turbo in the Mazda CX-9 is fantastic, very powerful for a mid-size 3-row SUV. Keep the 2.0 Turbo for the mid to small cars and SUV's.

All that being said, I could never own a pony car with anything less than a V8. Props to the V6, it's better than ever and has a place (my son's first car was a 2000 Camaro RS). Just not in my garage...

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by MrRuss

Having just gone through the comparison process and settled on the Camaro 2SS, I couldn't disagree more. The Camaro was just better. By a wide margin? No, but I liked it better on many levels (and so do most of the big auto magazine reviewers). Yes the equivalent Mustang or Challenger were a little less $$ but not enough to sway me.

FYI, I think the 4-cyl turbo needs to be larger and more HP/TQ. This is where Mustang is better, that 2.3L Turbo is pretty good. GM should develop a ~2.5L Turbo for the Camaro and mid size cars/SUV's. The 2.5 Turbo in the Mazda CX-9 is fantastic, very powerful for a mid-size 3-row SUV. Keep the 2.0 Turbo for the mid to small cars and SUV's.

All that being said, I could never own a pony car with anything less than a V8. Props to the V6, it's better than ever and has a place (my son's first car was a 2000 Camaro RS). Just not in my garage...

2.5L makes 250 HP with 93 Octane, only 237 with 87. Torque nice but HP is less than the 2.0 in the Camaro.

[Camarolover85]

As long as the car doesn’t go away again I don’t care how much it sells.

[MuhThugga]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

Camaro needs to be equally priced or slightly lower in every model category compared to Mustang and Challenger. Camaro is more expensive IE base SS and base GT, or base 4 banger turbo stang vs base 4 banger turbo Camaro. Camaro's are better cars, but money talks especially cars in the 26k to 36k range.

I agree that it needs to be cheaper. The question was poised on how to effectively make it cheaper. If I'm presented with a V6 Camaro and a 5.7 Challenger for the same price, I'm going with the Challenger every single time.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

The I4 and V6 are the bread and butter. A cheaper V8 would maybe increase sales by 200, 500 max. It won't be the holy grail that gets the Camaro back in the 6000-9000 unit range like the 5th gen saw.

Us enthusiasts need to realize that the majority of Mustang/Challenger/Camaro sales are not the V8 models.

Maybe, but then you have a lot of people with this mindset:

All that being said, I could never own a pony car with anything less than a V8.

Originally Posted by MrRuss

Having just gone through the comparison process and settled on the Camaro 2SS, I couldn't disagree more. The Camaro was just better. By a wide margin? No, but I liked it better on many levels (and so do most of the big auto magazine reviewers). Yes the equivalent Mustang or Challenger were a little less $$ but not enough to sway me.

Obviously, some people are going to disagree and say that they found the Camaro to be the better car since some of these cars are actually being sold. However, given the abysmal sales numbers, I'm going to say that those people are in the minority.

[IMadeYouReadThis]

[QUOTE=MuhThugga;10105283]I agree that it needs to be cheaper. The question was poised on how to effectively make it cheaper. If I'm presented with a V6 Camaro and a 5.7 Challenger for the same price, I'm going with the Challenger every single time.

that's fine man you can pay for the 5.7 v8 but You'll Never pull on a V6 Camaro 6th gen with that car.

so you pay more for gas to have that big fat pig as your car. worth every penny bro I'll stick with my V6 and run with you all day long

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by MuhThugga

I agree that it needs to be cheaper. The question was poised on how to effectively make it cheaper. If I'm presented with a V6 Camaro and a 5.7 Challenger for the same price, I'm going with the Challenger every single time.

Not me, I would have no problem with the V6 Camaro over the 5.7 Challenger. There is more to a car than the engine. Looks, handling, interior, etc. The Camaro wins on all fronts for me vs the ancient Challenger.

While I bought my Camaro because it was the best car with a V8 within my budget, it was more of a have to own a V8 sports car in my life time with the future of affordable V8's looking uncertain. But if the only thing I could afford was the V6, would have had no problem getting it either.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Not me, I would have no problem with the V6 Camaro over the 5.7 Challenger. There is more to a car than the engine. Looks, handling, interior, etc. The Camaro wins on all fronts for me vs the ancient Challenger.

While I bought my Camaro because it was the best car with a V8 within my budget, it was more of a have to own a V8 sports car in my life time with the future of affordable V8's looking uncertain. But if the only thing I could afford was the V6, would have had no problem getting it either.

The base V8 Camaro needs to be same price or less than the base v8 challenger and base V8 mustang period... No one in there right mind would take a V6 pony car over a V8. I have my potent 16 3.6 1LT manual for a DD, if the base SS was cheaper I would have a V8

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

The base V8 Camaro needs to be same price or less than the base v8 challenger and base V8 mustang period... No one in there right mind would take a V6 pony car over a V8. I have my potent 16 3.6 1LT manual for a DD, if the base SS was cheaper I would have a V8

Don't tell Glenn E that.... He went with the V6 over the V8. Not everyone wants a V8 if they don't intend to use the power.

But I would absolutely take the Camaro V6 over the Challenger 5.7 V8. I am just not impressed with the Challenger. It's on a platform that is over 20 years old, hasn't seen a redesign since its inception in 2008, it's massively overweight, etc. The Camaro is just a better car period in my opinion and cylinder count won't sway me over to the Challenger.

[MuhThugga]

Originally Posted by IMadeYouReadThis

that's fine man you can pay for the 5.7 v8 but You'll Never pull on a V6 Camaro 6th gen with that car.

so you pay more for gas to have that big fat pig as your car. worth every penny bro I'll stick with my V6 and run with you all day long

Okay? Because my concern is being able to run with the V6 Camaro?

I've noticed that the V6 guys always feel the need to try and justify their existence. The truth of the matter is that in this hypothetical scenario, I would give zero concern about how much gas I'm burning and even less concern about you and your V6.

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

But I would absolutely take the Camaro V6 over the Challenger 5.7 V8. I am just not impressed with the Challenger. It's on a platform that is over 20 years old, hasn't seen a redesign since its inception in 2008, it's massively overweight, etc. The Camaro is just a better car period in my opinion and cylinder count won't sway me over to the Challenger.

The thing was redesigned in 2015.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by MuhThugga

The thing was redesigned in 2015.

It had a MCE in 2015. It's still the same design even if the grille got slightly altered, new taillights, and new interior.

[IMadeYouReadThis]

[QUOTE=MuhThugga;10105617]Okay? Because my concern is being able to run with the V6 Camaro?

I've noticed that the V6 guys always feel the need to try and justify their existence. The truth of the matter is that in this hypothetical scenario, I would give zero concern about how much gas I'm burning and even less concern about you and your V6.



Bro all that matters is 0 to 60 and the 5.7 Dodge and the V6 Camaro they're both 5.1 seconds.

Why does GM need the drop in the 5.3 when they've already matched the dodge 5.7 with a V6

Now if you need that V8 to feel like a man all the power to you.

I say again if you're going to get a Camaro and you want a V8 get an SS make it worth your time

[DenverTaco07]

The question is are they making money from the Camaro? GM's leaders have proven their enthusiasm for performance cars, so unless the Camaro is losing them tons of cash, or there's a change in leadership, it will be around - IMO.

[Chazzz]

Originally Posted by motorhead

How do you know for sure that these cars arent selling right where GM expects them to be?
GM has stated time and time again that they are moving to higher margins of profit per unit over volume thus the big cut in the fleet car world. These arent high volume cars anyhow. Like I said above the challenger didnt ramp up to their level of sales. It's remained pretty flat its entire existence. I think people are expecting to see Gen5 numbers. That just isnt going to happen. The pent up demand is no longer there. All the Mullet heads got one or two. Game over. Back to reality. I think GM realized this and has structured more profit into each car sold over the need for high volume. The Camaro is still leading in sales if you take fleet sales away anyhow. That's awesome for GM.

It's pretty obvious after cutting production and laying off workers after canceling a shift at the plant that sales are not where GM would like on this car. It looks as though GM is willing to live with these numbers rather than putting large incentives on the hoods to increase sales. I'm sure matching Gen5 sales year to year would be more in line with what GM had in mind in sales numbers. Gen6 from the start never took off as the end of year fire/Red Tag sale in 2016 and a price decrease for 2017 was needed. Not exactly what GM was hoping for im sure after the successful Gen5 run. The trend away from passenger cars in general doesn't help, nor does making a car that already wasn't a practical sports car in Gen5 even less practical. Let's see if the upcoming refresh can help boost these plunging sales figures.