[shaffe]

Camaro is safe for now as long as the CT5 still lives. If the CT5 goes away then I would be worried. Those two cars are linked together

[Bhobbs]

And based on Cadillac’s sales, I would be a little nervous if I was on Team Camaro.

[GearheadSS]

Camaro isn't going anywhere. They know that this segment produces sales. They just have to figure out how to get some away from Ford and Dodge.

[gringo]

Well, if the new styling update for '19 (SS front end) is any indication of where they're going for future Camaro models, maybe it would be best for them just to discontinue it again.

[18LTLoveIt]

2019 was a bad tweek, even with ZL1 front because there is no escaping the hideous tail lights.

I don't agree with discontinuing Camaro, but I think they should do a ground up remodel with the 70-73 in mind, keeping just a few tidbits of 5th Gen for continuity. They have 2 years while the sales dwindle, whynot? Nothing to lose.

[Bhobbs]

No more retro. They need to bring the Camaro up to date.

[Chazzz]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

And based on Cadillac’s sales, I would be a little nervous if I was on Team Camaro.

Cadillac is a dying brand....

[Z Boss]

I agree about the good look for Cadillac, Chevy and Harley Davidson at President GHWBush's funeral(s) and they were clean and impressive as a group in procession. As an American, I was proud of GM in those moments.
Not only are Camaros not advertised in any energetic manner, they seem to be omitted from Chevrolet's group ad campaigns lately. How exciting is a commercial with a still picture of blue Camaro sitting on a perfectly lighted stage for a two second shot anyway? That will sell a lot of cars huh? As an enthusiast, those Dodge commercials are impressive - engine sound, some smoke, cool lighting and cars are actually moving. Wow - some innovative marketing. My 25 year old professional son, whose Dad owns 5 Camaros, next week will be looking at Dodge SRT Challengers and SRT Jeeps for purchase. There are about 10 Camaro commercial themes that immediately come to mind including a ZL1 track day, a 1LE track day for all engine options, a Camaro 6 generations of heritage theme, Camaro technology angle, performance value vs $$ and personalizing your Camaro via Chev Perf Parts. Maybe even, imagine this, talking to real Camaro owners vs "real people, not actors" (for goodness sake, that's laughable.) My son and daughter who are as engaged in social media as the average millennial aren't even remotely touched by Chev. Camaro or Corvette advertising as they don't attend NASCAR races or the Power Tour. GM \ Chevrolet should consider hiring advertising personnel who actually enthusiastically drive Camaros and maybe put some passion behind the ads. Al O., if you get board with electric vehicles, how about VP of Camaro brand marketing? If Chevrolet isn't passionate about Camaros, how can they expect new customers to be excited? Passion won't come from any dealership visit I've ever seen. Millennials despise the dealership sales experience. That's correct - "sales" vs. buying experience.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

No more retro. They need to bring the Camaro up to date.

It is up to date...You want it to look like a typical modern ugly ass car like cars made today?? Retro cars or 60s/70s cars were just much more stylish cars, so keep it retro with modern flairs. In fact GM should make all their cars with retro styling flairs instead of following the crowd with ugly ass boring looking cars then spend some money on real ad promotions.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Chazzz

Cadillac is a dying brand....

Lets face it the real problem with GM is its not being run by real forward thinking enthusiastic car people at the very top with real leadership. I think the new Caddys are good vehicles but the really beautiful Caddys I see never make it off the drawing board. The Caddys that make production have ugly flat slab side panels that are styless. Look at some of Caddys proto types they have been making and they are beautiful but they never get produced.


These are Caddys...


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_20xJU3vaQ...lpaper.net.jpg


http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcsi.d...-308229983.jpg



http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sit...ee-quarter.jpg




http://cdn.ourtutscom.netdna-cdn.com...en-concept.jpg


No balls to build them.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Z Boss

I agree about the good look for Cadillac, Chevy and Harley Davidson at President GHWBush's funeral(s) and they were clean and impressive as a group in procession. As an American, I was proud of GM in those moments.
Not only are Camaros not advertised in any energetic manner, they seem to be omitted from Chevrolet's group ad campaigns lately. How exciting is a commercial with a still picture of blue Camaro sitting on a perfectly lighted stage for a two second shot anyway? That will sell a lot of cars huh? As an enthusiast, those Dodge commercials are impressive - engine sound, some smoke, cool lighting and cars are actually moving. Wow - some innovative marketing. My 25 year old professional son, whose Dad owns 5 Camaros, next week will be looking at Dodge SRT Challengers and SRT Jeeps for purchase. There are about 10 Camaro commercial themes that immediately come to mind including a ZL1 track day, a 1LE track day for all engine options, a Camaro 6 generations of heritage theme, Camaro technology angle, performance value vs $$ and personalizing your Camaro via Chev Perf Parts. Maybe even, imagine this, talking to real Camaro owners vs "real people, not actors" (for goodness sake, that's laughable.) My son and daughter who are as engaged in social media as the average millennial aren't even remotely touched by Chev. Camaro or Corvette advertising as they don't attend NASCAR races or the Power Tour. GM \ Chevrolet should consider hiring advertising personnel who actually enthusiastically drive Camaros and maybe put some passion behind the ads. Al O., if you get board with electric vehicles, how about VP of Camaro brand marketing? If Chevrolet isn't passionate about Camaros, how can they expect new customers to be excited? Passion won't come from any dealership visit I've ever seen. Millennials despise the dealership sales experience. That's correct - "sales" vs. buying experience.

True...America is now dying and will be officially dead when a presidents funeral is escorted by Honda motorcycles and Toyota cars and and a Lexus Hearst. The question now is can not only American manufacturing be saved but can America in general be saved?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

Lets face it the real problem with GM is its not being run by real forward thinking enthusiastic car people at the very top with real leadership. I think the new Caddys are good vehicles but the really beautiful Caddys I see never make it off the drawing board. The Caddys that make production have ugly flat slab side panels that are styless. Look at some of Caddys proto types they have been making and they are beautiful but they never get produced.


These are Caddys...


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_20xJU3vaQ...lpaper.net.jpg


http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcsi.d...-308229983.jpg



http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sit...ee-quarter.jpg




http://cdn.ourtutscom.netdna-cdn.com...en-concept.jpg


No balls to build them.

Not disagreeing with the results, but I can assure you the people running the show are, in fact, enthusiastic car people.

As beautiful as some of those concepts are, none would sell in numbers. Has GM taken the "Art and Science" too far and too long with Cadillac? Yes.

But the issue for Cadillac is what we argue about here so often. What Cadillac has become is a car driven by styling and not practicality. Style it first and deal with the occupant space that's left as best you can. I saw it too many times.

I remember when they put the ATS green house in a BMW 3 Series using tape. It was hilarious to see how much of the 3 Series greenhouse was removed. Slammed roof, high belt, no rear seat headroom or legroom, limited trunk. As outstanding a car to drive as the ATS is (and we are on our 2nd one), it suffers from the same things the Camaro does. The CTS suffers from the same problems and it's even more hampered because it's a larger car built of a smaller car platform so it also has a higher step over height to accommodate the bigger tire/wheel combinations in the larger car. And most of this high belt, slammed roof styling was the result of Ed Welburn (who also did all of the show cars you linked to), head of GM Design Staff for many years. You can do this on limited production cars, like the exercises you point out. But your C and E Class cars have to look awesome and yet provide a useful car. Or you'll just drive people to SUVs...……….er ooops.


I would certainly love to see Cadillac lead again, but it needs to lead with sales volume. And again that's something we argue about the Camaro all the time. "oh it's transaction price is higher" "oh I'm glad I have a rare car". You win by outselling you customer with great products that don't require discounts. That enables you to do really cool low volume stuff.


Even in China, Cadillac struggles for volume where they are outsold by MB, BMW and Audi. Although they made a good move up in 2017. But Buick is the success story in China with over a million units sold. LOL Buick even has a mini-van in China.


And the wild card in all of this is that pesky Tesla Model 3. Without the cheap version yet, it's a top 10 selling car now outselling even the BMW 3 Series and sitting only behind the venerable Toyotas and Hondas for sedans.


So I have high hopes under Steve Carlisle that Cadillac can find it's way again and soon.

[Zack46]

Originally Posted by gringo

Well, if the new styling update for '19 (SS front end) is any indication of where they're going for future Camaro models, maybe it would be best for them just to discontinue it again.

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

Lets face it the real problem with GM is its not being run by real forward thinking enthusiastic car people at the very top with real leadership. I think the new Caddys are good vehicles but the really beautiful Caddys I see never make it off the drawing board. The Caddys that make production have ugly flat slab side panels that are styless. Look at some of Caddys proto types they have been making and they are beautiful but they never get produced.


These are Caddys...


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_20xJU3vaQ...lpaper.net.jpg


http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcsi.d...-308229983.jpg



http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sit...ee-quarter.jpg




http://cdn.ourtutscom.netdna-cdn.com...en-concept.jpg


No balls to build them.

GM has a history of dialing back the styling on production models but your conclusion is incorrect. Cadillac and Buick cars are not selling....

but their SUV's are; and they aren't selling because SUV's look cooler than cars.

Saw two Cadillac holiday ads on tv this morning with in a few minutes. One advertising the XT5, the other the Escalade.