[Smokin19]

I brought the issue of the electric grid capability up on another thread. Worked in nuclear power for over 30 years and know a thing or two about the fragility of the grid and how outdated it is. It is also very vulnerable to disruption by many things, one being overload. Add to this fact that they are closing coal burning plants faster that eliminating gas cars over SUV's and you have a major problem going forward. They are also NOT building any new generation plants, so where is all this extra power to come from?

It doesn't matter as someone said, "charging at night when the grid is less used", these cars won't charge on simple 110v. Imagine everyone running their electric 220v dryers at once. The grid will not support this massive amount of draw without some updating and that will cost BILLIONS. Most electric companies are right at the breaking point of profitability and can't absorb the cost of updating the grid, so where will this $$ come from?

We now pay an added on cost for our so call "gas guzzler's", wait till you see the added cost to EV cars to pay for the grid, it's coming. The money has to come from somewhere and it's not going to be the govt and like I said the electric companies don't have the money for it either.

Now the politics. With the global community clamoring over global warming, which is driving this push for EV cars, eventually the govt will be forced to put even more pressure on the manufactures to come up with EV cars. We are just in the early stages of this happening, it is inevitable.

[mdhopt36]

After that, GM is going full electric.

NFW. If they do, they'll go belly-up.
Read Smokin15's post. precisely why EV's can't, nor will they ever make it as a replacement for ICE's. The infrastructure does -NOT- exist for having significant numbers of electrics sitting in drives and connected to the grid.

*********
Someone, gov't or otherwise, is trying to ram electrics down our throats. And mgmt at the automakers have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.

THANKS, Smokin15. Nice factual description there.

[Silverado57]

I think electric cars are coming. I wouldn't object to a high-powered electric car as long as they can do something about the mileage range, and the availability of high speed recharging stations.

[mdhopt36]

With the global community clamoring over global warming,....

Not to be political, but FACTUAL.
If 'greenhouse earth' is googled up, one will find that roughly 80% of earth's history is spent in such periods where CO2 levels have been 2,000 ppm.

As such, EV's are just a solution looking for a problem.

[Silverado57]

Originally Posted by mdhopt36

With the global community clamoring over global warming,....

Not to be political, but FACTUAL.
If 'greenhouse earth' is googled up, one will find that roughly 80% of earth's history is spent in such periods where CO2 levels have been 2,000 ppm.

As such, EV's are just a solution looking for a problem.

I don't disagree. Millions of people in Dixieland will be shoveling white global warming this weekend, and winter hasn't even officially arrived yet.

[fastball]

Not giving up my ICE and three pedal manual transmission. Ever.

And I’m only 41, I got a lot of life left.

Kcuf them.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by mdhopt36

With the global community clamoring over global warming,....

Not to be political, but FACTUAL.
If 'greenhouse earth' is googled up, one will find that roughly 80% of earth's history is spent in such periods where CO2 levels have been 2,000 ppm.

As such, EV's are just a solution looking for a problem.

Well there is that pesky thing about the limited supply of oil in the ground.

Also you need to keep a global view. In China, the large cities (I think they are all large) pollution is HORRID. Just google it. It's bad.

So when the single largest automotive market (30 plus million vs 17 million US) is capacitized and capitalized for EVs, just know that it's coming.

Plus autonomous vehicles really want to be EVs.

ICE won't go away simply because I doubt the government would ever make them illegal. And the simple fact that there are 250 million ICE powered cars in the US means it's a lonnngggggg time before we are an EV market. Heck if the 17 million was a 100% EV it would take 20 years to convert everything.

But as ICEs drop in volume simple Econ 101 says their prices will go up. And ultimately driving an EV is not a horrible experience by any means. It's just powered differently.

Oh and just for fun go look at the videos on line for Teslas vs Camaro or any other performance car. They hold there own.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Well there is that pesky thing about the limited supply of oil in the ground.

Also you need to keep a global view. In China, the large cities (I think they are all large) pollution is HORRID. Just google it. It's bad.

So when the single largest automotive market (30 plus million vs 17 million US) is capacitized and capitalized for EVs, just know that it's coming.

Plus autonomous vehicles really want to be EVs.

ICE won't go away simply because I doubt the government would ever make them illegal. And the simple fact that there are 250 million ICE powered cars in the US means it's a lonnngggggg time before we are an EV market. Heck if the 17 million was a 100% EV it would take 20 years to convert everything.

But as ICEs drop in volume simple Econ 101 says their prices will go up. And ultimately driving an EV is not a horrible experience by any means. It's just powered differently.

Oh and just for fun go look at the videos on line for Teslas vs Camaro or any other performance car. They hold there own.

The oil supply is not limited. Not for a thousand years. They keep finding new sources, and if we seriously wanted to America could quit importing an ounce of oil and we’d have enough to maintain current levels of demand for at least the next 500 years. Just within our own borders.

There are those of us who enjoy DRIVING. That means a loud internal combustion engine that spews emissions connected to a 3 pedal REAL manual transmission.

To the tree huggers and electric and autonomous crowd I continue to yell kcuf you!!

Trying to stay clear of politics on here is harder and harder every damn day.

[Silverado57]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Well there is that pesky thing about the limited supply of oil in the ground.

...

"They" (the doomsday crowd) have been predicting the decline of global oil supplies for several decades. It certainly won't last forever but we're good for a long while. FWIW the US is now the world leader in oil production, with lots of still untapped reserves.

1977: Oil will peak by the early 90s
"As a nation, Americans have been reluctant to accept the prospect of physical shortages. We must recognize that world oil production will likely peak in the early 1990's, and from that point on will be on a declining curve. By the early part of the 21st century, we must face the prospect of running out of oil and natural gas."

— 1977 US Department of Energy Organization Act

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Silverado57

"They" (the doomsday crowd) have been predicting the decline of global oil supplies for several decades. It certainly won't last forever but we're good for a long while. FWIW the US is now the world leader in oil production, with lots of still untapped reserves.

1977: Oil will peak by the early 90s
"As a nation, Americans have been reluctant to accept the prospect of physical shortages. We must recognize that world oil production will likely peak in the early 1990's, and from that point on will be on a declining curve. By the early part of the 21st century, we must face the prospect of running out of oil and natural gas."

— 1977 US Department of Energy Organization Act

I don't disagree, but as the population doubles in the next 50 years, this will become a thing. Not tomorrow or next year, but it will quickly become a concern. I think you are agreeing with that. It is not endless and there will become a point where it is no longer the cheapest form of energy to produce, transport and consume. First, there is no one trying to invent cheaper oil. There are lots of people trying to get cheaper, longer lasting batteries, faster recharging, improved solar cells, etc. At some point they cross over.

Oh and it may not simply be a charged EV off the grid in the future. There are a crap load more people working on hydrogen fuel cell solutions and there is a disruptive truck company called Nikola (look them up) using hydrogen to eliminate the huge diesel engines.

So this is a battle is for $$$ as it always is. The oil companies make a crap load of it. People are working on ways to get some of that money. So regardless of government regulations, seeking profit is creating new solutions. Gasoline and the ICE are only capable of tiny incremental improvements now. They will not be cheaper to produce and the fuel price is simply a supply and demand proposition. No one is going to find cheaper oil than we have today. Only if OPEC provides an unlimited supply would there be significant drops and even then, it's still supply and demand. Unless you get the Jed Clampett model where it just pours out of the ground, LOL. Oil will likely continue to be the cheapest form of energy to produce, transport and purchase for quite some time. But there are a lot of people working on alternatives that are lower cost and meet the needs of the transforming transportation industry.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I don't disagree, but as the population doubles in the next 50 years, this will become a thing. Not tomorrow or next year, but it will quickly become a concern. I think you are agreeing with that.

No, it won’t. Quit talking like a giddamned Greenpeace doomsayer.

[Silverado57]

Originally Posted by Number 3

... Oil will likely continue to be the cheapest form of energy to produce, transport and purchase for quite some time. But there are a lot of people working on alternatives that are lower cost and meet the needs of the transforming transportation industry.

I agree that people should be working on alternative energy sources, if for no other reason that I have abundant and inexpensive gasoline for my V8 engines.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Silverado57

I agree that people should be working on alternative energy sources, if for no other reason that I have abundant and inexpensive gasoline for my V8 engines.

Aye We made a great call buying into the most powerful, most advanced and (subjectively) best looking Camaro generation. I'm happy I decided not to wait for the 2019 model.

In general, the writing is on the wall for driving personal vehicles. If current trends continue, swarms of centrally managed autonomous EV's will provide rentable rides and there won't be much else left for pesky people like us who want to retain control over what their vehicle does (in the name of "safety", "efficiency" and "comfort"). We'll need to find ways to fight successfully for this degree of freedom, and soon.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by fastball

The oil supply is not limited. Not for a thousand years. They keep finding new sources, and if we seriously wanted to America could quit importing an ounce of oil and we’d have enough to maintain current levels of demand for at least the next 500 years. Just within our own borders.

There are those of us who enjoy DRIVING. That means a loud internal combustion engine that spews emissions connected to a 3 pedal REAL manual transmission.

To the tree huggers and electric and autonomous crowd I continue to yell kcuf you!!

Trying to stay clear of politics on here is harder and harder every damn day.

Well lets just agree to disagree on the amount of oil left. The population of the planet will double in 50 years. It is not limitless no matter how much you would like to convince yourself of that. How long it lasts? Well for the ICE hold outs, the more EVs on the road the longer the oil will last.

To be clear, I really enjoy driving. I don't need a clutch for that as the DCT in my Audi S4 was a far greater driving experience. And as much as the audio "can" be a part of it, it doesn't keep me from enjoying driving any less.

I likely won't have an EV anytime soon. But people that care enough to come to websites and talk cars are dwindling.

Oh, and your FU to them is simply not nice. They aren't doing a thing to you.