[Number 3]

Originally Posted by bootss

Yeah, you kind of nailed it. I hope the EV falls on its face too. All EVs are ~5k more across the board, and ruin the environment to make them (as if anyone really cares). To top it off, they're no fun to drive. Those EV trucks can't really do truck things too well, and the EV sports cars will be quick as ****, but I don't think they will be much fun. If that makes sense. That's where people will start looking to things like this car.

To be clear and fair, pumping oil and digging coal out of the ground hasn’t been too sweet for the environment either. Many seem to think otherwise and only focus on he mining vs drilling and gouging. We’ve done a LOT of drilling and gouging.

[Jus Cruisin]

Originally Posted by Spaceme1117

This is what you get with EV's and it will only get worse:

https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/23/...-feature-price

What are we spending on performance upgrades over stock? My truck is a hybrid and I'll likely replace it with a full ev. I went full battery powered lawn equipment 6 years ago and zero regrets with that. But, I still like good ole gas powered horsepower, too.

[Newcastle]

I will baby my Honda mower the rest of my life. They announced that they are ending gas powered mowers. Too many law suits from CA and others.

[rlarsen462]

Originally Posted by Number 3

To be clear and fair, pumping oil and digging coal out of the ground hasn’t been too sweet for the environment either. Many seem to think otherwise and only focus on he mining vs drilling and gouging. We’ve done a LOT of drilling and gouging.

So what are EV's made from? Unicorn farts and pixie dust?

[Newcastle]

Exactly! Drilling oil leaves a very small footprint unless there is a spill. Even with a spill its on land its easily fixed. Mining on the other hand......

[302crossram]

Originally Posted by Number 3

To be clear and fair, pumping oil and digging coal out of the ground hasn’t been too sweet for the environment either. Many seem to think otherwise and only focus on he mining vs drilling and gouging. We’ve done a LOT of drilling and gouging.

do a search on EV lithium mining, lots of images of planet destruction
also in Africa, cobalt miners lower 7yo boys by rope into
small vertical shafts to extract the cobalt by hand..
tons of videos out there.....

[Gunkk]

There isn't enough accessible lithium on the planet to support worldwide conversion to electric at the current pace, despite Marry Barra's press release wet dreams. Hence the rising prices of batteries. Ain't gonna stop until they change chemistry.

Big flow battery storage works a treat for grid-level and large industrial complexes, because it doesn't wear out, but it requires maintenance and is not portable.

If they figure out the carbon-air thing for vehicles, then we'll all be gucci. But the recharge power still has to come form somewhere and right now coal is king on planet Earth.

[DaveC113]

Hard to say, but I'll take a WAG:

Pre-pandemic these cars depreciated quite quickly. I bought my '18 SLE for $39k in September of '18 and before the prices started to go up it was worth just over $30k or so, down from a $45k msrp VERY quickly! Now it's worth about what I paid for it.

The answer is going to be very simple: supply vs demand. If I were to guess, this equation is going to tilt the other way in the next year. Supply will go up as chips and other shortages are reduced, so there is likely to be dealer inventory again. I just saw an unsold Camaro LT1 vert at a Chevy dealer, a Caddy CT4-V Blackwing sitting at the Caddy dealer next door, along with many more brand new vehicles. So dealers are getting their stock back and I expect this to continue. Nobody is going to pay you msrp for your used car when they can go to a dealer and just buy one.

Demand is going to go down due to the rise of both gas prices and interest rates, and the likelihood of recession. Many folks are canceling orders for cars they placed months ago, or not taking delivery once they arrive due these factors.

The availability of new cars is going to cause the price of used cars to go down, this is already happening. I see dealers still trying to f#$k people on price and private sellers desperately trying to sell their cars for inflated prices before the crash really takes hold. I'm in the market for a used car, likely a '17-'18 Caddy ATS w/ AWD, but I'll wait on that. Maybe get a decent deal after xmas, but likely have to wait a bit longer.

If '24 is the last year for Camaro and availability does not increase to the point there is dealer stock readily available, then I'd expect Camaros to retain value a lot better. Otherwise they will depreciate with everything else.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by rlarsen462

So what are EV's made from? Unicorn farts and pixie dust?

Originally Posted by 302crossram

do a search on EV lithium mining, lots of images of planet destruction
also in Africa, cobalt miners lower 7yo boys by rope into
small vertical shafts to extract the cobalt by hand..
tons of videos out there.....

Lol clearly political for you two.

Search on oil drilling and coal mining as well as shipping, pipeline and rig disasters. Refinery fires too. Good comparable history here.

Point is simply both are ugly and you both seem to think gas just magically appears at the pump. But it makes your mining argument feel more real if it did.

Play fair.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Lol clearly political for you two.

Search on oil drilling and coal mining as well as shipping, pipeline and rig disasters. Refinery fires too. Good comparable history here.

Point is simply both are ugly and you both seem to think gas just magically appears at the pump. But it makes your mining argument feel more real if it did.

Play fair.

I didn't see anything political in their posts, nice try though.

Both are ugly, but the new one is worse and is clearly a way to exploit more people and coerce them in to sending more money to their buddies in the auto industry.

I have never heard a single good defense for going EV, the argument simply doesn't exist.

[bootss]

I do hope they drop the camaro name instead of turning it into yet another egg shaped shitbox like most other cars today

[Marty31]

Originally Posted by Spaceme1117

This is what you get with EV's and it will only get worse:

https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/23/...-feature-price

I hadn't realized this was happening. I think folks with that kind of disposable income will pay for inherent performance and this trend will continue.

[m6-lt1]

It’s really tough to say what will happen when camaro gets the axe. The last time it did dealers and private sellers couldn’t even give them away. Remember prior to the pandemic there was a reason these cars didn’t sell well. It’s because the general public didn’t want them. But now with the transition to EV’s and so little camaro’s being the produced from 2020-2024 I can see zl1’s holding decent value but not appreciating. I don’t think the trim levels below zl1 will hold decent values. We might in 15+ years start seeing some price appreciation like we are right now with the F body’s and early 2000’s sports cars in general.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

It’s really tough to say what will happen when camaro gets the axe. The last time it did dealers and private sellers couldn’t even give them away. Remember prior to the pandemic there was a reason these cars didn’t sell well. It’s because the general public didn’t want them. But now with the transition to EV’s and so little camaro’s being the produced from 2020-2024 I can see zl1’s holding decent value but not appreciating. I don’t think the trim levels below zl1 will hold decent values. We might in 15+ years start seeing some price appreciation like we are right now with the F body’s and early 2000’s sports cars in general.

But it's the same with so many cars. Chevy SS? 20% off sale and people still wouldn't buy, just a few years later it's selling for msrp. C7 ZR1? Could get one at a significant discount pre pandemic, now worth way over msrp. My '18 SS 1LE is still worth about what I paid new. Camaro prices won't go back down until there's dealer inventory, if that never happens I'd expect to see prices near msrp continue for a while and then go up, and I think that'll apply to all Camaros with V8s. Hard to say on the 4s and 6s, those cars typically have poor resale values vs the 8s.

We're seeing more Camaros being built and even some dealer inventory. I've seen a couple come in unsold, a ZL1 vert and an LT-1 vert actually made it to my local dealers without a buyer. We will see what happens over the next year or so...

The big thing that's different right now is both lack of new inventory and the end of these type of ICE cars, this isn't the same as it was when Chevy canceled the Camaro last time.