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Old 10-03-2017, 02:33 PM   #43
oldman


 
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Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
What fuel system upgrades would be needed so you could run the Non IC maggie with E85? Would a pump voltage booster suffice?
AFAIK any boost a pump deal would work only on the low pressure side pump that is in the tank. I don't think that is a bottle neck to 550 HP on E85. In general it is the high pressure pump that is cam driven and the injector nozzle size.


I would speculate the Lingenfelter HP pump alone would do the trick:
http://www.lingenfelter.com/product/...l#.WdPlabpFyUk

-Over 30% more fuel flow than the stock L86 and LT1 fuel pump
-Nearly 10% more fuel flow than the stock LT4 fuel pump
-Increased fuel flow allows higher power levels without having to resort to auxiliary fuel systems
-Direct fit replacement with no modifications required
-Stock OE look exterally
-E85 compatible
-Can be combined with higher lift fuel pump lobes for even great flow rate increases

Of course at some point something like this at 900 HP on E85 is clearly going to be enough:

http://www.lingenfelter.com/product/...l#.WdPk6LpFyUk
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:51 PM   #44
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Thanks for the reply. I am going to install a flex fuel sensor and run E85 NA for a bit, then decide which way I want to go. 550-600 whp is all I am looking for. It seems sticking with a intercooled setup on 93 is the best approach for this power level without expensive fuel upgrades.
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Old 10-03-2017, 09:20 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by toohighpsi View Post
I have run both scenarios

I setup the engine dyno with a completely stock LT1 (including all stock fuel system) with a Magnuson Heartbeat 2300. I used good old California Chevron 91 octane in the tank and outfitted the throttle body inlet tube with a dual large nozzle AEM water injection system delivering up to 1600 cc/min of a 50/50 water/meth mix. Engine was tuned to for max power under both conditions (pulley timing and A/F) and while I really thought they would make about the same power, they did not.

Intercooled made 729 HP
Non - Intercooled made 678 HP

It seemed the biggest trouble I ran into when trying to run high levels of water/meth injection without the intercoolers was cylinder to cylinder distribution. The intercoolers in the mainfold seem to do a nice job of driving distribution throughout the manifold. I would have like to try straight methanol which would possibly help with distribution, but time didn't allow.

Now, with that being said, the addition of water/meth to this engine/sc combination added about 110 HP overall on pump gas (intercooled or not) and the NON intercooled SC system with water/meth made ~ 60 HP over the base intercooled SC kit on pump gas alone.

So, if the question is can you make as much power with the non intercooled kit with water injection as you can with the intercooled kit? The answer is an easy yet - but no matter which way you look at it (with or without water/meth), the intercoolers add at least 50 HP to the system...
this is incredible information, 670+hp non intercooled is tits! Wish you could have continued to play with the water/meth % on the non intercooled kit. I bet a 70/30 meth/water inj on the non intercooled kit would be knocking on the door of 700hp, and that's my goal. not interest in forging this LT1. Non intercooled Maggie + a nice meth/water chemical intercooler injection is where its at for me. No heat exchanger, no intercooler pump, no $2,000+ surcharge for traditional intercooler and we got good 93 oct around here
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:41 PM   #46
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Heck I like 550 HP with headers and rotofab, e85, lingenfelter injectors for $500, note: he thinks it is distribution that was the problem. By going e85 and putting the alky into the chamber instead of it getting beat up and turned into vapor in the plenum, is what I like.
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Last edited by oldman; 10-04-2017 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:58 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by oldman View Post
Heck I like 550 HP with headers and rotofab, e85, lingenfelter injectors for $500, not he thinks it is distribution that was the problem. By going e85 and putting the alky into the chamber instead of it getting beat up and turned into vapor in the plenum, is what I like.
Just for clarity, we can do E85 non intercooled and get to 550whp with just injectors? Or are you saying injectors and a meth kit?

* Those LPE injectors are 495.00 each btw.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:04 AM   #48
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Just for clarity, we can do E85 non intercooled and get to 550whp with just injectors? Or are you saying injectors and a meth kit?

* Those LPE injectors are 495.00 each btw.
The thread is about meth / water into the supercharger. But IMO it is possible to get a large amount of ethanol into the chamber via large injectors. The phase change would be more important in the chamber hence the DI in the first place. Clearly at some point Injectors (LT4 or Ligenfelter) to HP (LT4 to Ligenfelter) pump to cam to LP pump upgrade chain more than enough alky can be injected, the full Ligenfelter fuel package is rated at 900 HP on E85: we are talking fuel delivery only.
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Last edited by oldman; 10-04-2017 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:10 AM   #49
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I get it...thanks!
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Old 10-05-2017, 08:34 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
Just for clarity, we can do E85 non intercooled and get to 550whp with just injectors? Or are you saying injectors and a meth kit?

* Those LPE injectors are 495.00 each btw.
As soon as you introduce E85 you need 30% more fuel flow to support the same power you wold make on Gasoline of the proper octane.

This requires In tank pump for NON 1-LE cars, and LT-4 HPFP, and LT-4 Injectors and possibly a Fuel pump voltage booster.

Ted.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:23 AM   #51
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Ok so that drives the cost up more then just buying the intercooled kit and running 93. I am liking the idea of a NON IC kit and using a AEM injection system that the OP inquired about.
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:32 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
Ok so that drives the cost up more then just buying the intercooled kit and running 93. I am liking the idea of a NON IC kit and using a AEM injection system that the OP inquired about.
No matter what, you will hit the fuel deliver limit long before you find the limit of the blower or HP goals above 575 RWHP, Not accounting for Happy dynos.

You should also consider blower removal is required to change pump and injectors so the best time to do them is during the blower install.

This saves a lot of hours of labor which will cover a good portion of the parts.

Ted.
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