[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

True, but I don't see any new sporty EV coupe built from scratch that would be a big seller, either. The tooling, platform, etc., for Camaros exists now and shouldn't be thrown away. Better to keep an existing platform for a small ICE Camaro market, than have nothing. This "platform" argument is a phantom non-issue when it comes to the car-buying public. Just ask Dodge about the Challenger.

Challenger was built on a platform that was ten years old before the first Challenger was placed on it. In other words, already depreciated and very low cost. Alpha is an expensive platform primarily designed for Cadillac products, and expanded to include Camaro in order to spread the cost over more volume. There were supposed to be more variants, including Cadillac CUV/SUV models, but with the Cadillac move to all EV by 2030 and GM by 2035, there are no additional projects for Alpha. Producing lower than low volume of Camaro on it at a plant that is on the verge of being transformed to a Factory Zero (EV) plant is a non-starter. GM walked away from the even more expensive Omega platform and bespoke engine for it after only one model application. If they did that, there is no doubt that Alpha is toast.

[Realist]

Have had at least 1 of each Gen Camaro except a 2nd Gen. I like high power, high optioned cars. Loaded ZL1 7th Gen EV gonna be $100000, not gonna spend that much for the limited miles I would rack up. All the tech and batteries with limited long term testing for reliability/life expectancy, I would need full 10 year warranty to be comfortable. I will let others test them, this EV round.

[Camaro fanboy]

i just bought a nissan leaf. so far so good. 140 miles on a full battery.
gets my son to work and back almost for free on 55% battery. costs 2 usd to fully charge on our tariff..
for long journeys we can use his car my van or the camaro.

[90503]

Is there a list yet of which EVs qualify (or will soon qualify) for the tax credit of $7.5K?

EDIT: Found this.

Appears nothing is written in stone yet.

https://electrek.co/2022/11/16/which...al-tax-credit/

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Challenger was built on a platform that was ten years old before the first Challenger was placed on it. In other words, already depreciated and very low cost. Alpha is an expensive platform primarily designed for Cadillac products, and expanded to include Camaro in order to spread the cost over more volume. There were supposed to be more variants, including Cadillac CUV/SUV models, but with the Cadillac move to all EV by 2030 and GM by 2035, there are no additional projects for Alpha. Producing lower than low volume of Camaro on it at a plant that is on the verge of being transformed to a Factory Zero (EV) plant is a non-starter. GM walked away from the even more expensive Omega platform and bespoke engine for it after only one model application. If they did that, there is no doubt that Alpha is toast.

This!

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Is there a list yet of which EVs qualify (or will soon qualify) for the tax credit of $7.5K?

EDIT: Found this. https://electrek.co/2022/11/16/which...al-tax-credit/

Appears nothing is written in stone yet.

It’s a sliding scale. There are different ranges of qualification based on

• Where the vehicle is built
• Where the batteries are assembled
• Where some of the battery raw materials are sourced
• Price of the vehicle
• Income bracket of the buyer

Ignoring the income bracket thing since that’s something the vehicle manufacturer cannot control, The vehicle price is the first filter. Having passed that, where the vehicle is built accounts for half of the incentive ($3,750). It either qualifies or it doesn’t.

The remaining $3,750 is dependent on the battery sourcing and the battery material sourcing and is variable from $0 - $3,750, depending on a number of things, and it changes from year to year.

The highest hurdle for any vehicle is where the battery materials (cobalt, graphite, lithium, manganese, nickel) are sourced. Throughout the rollout of the IRA, the percentage of minerals sourced from “friendly” locations changes, so it’s possible for a vehicle to qualify for some of the materials sourcing incentive in 2024 and not in 2025 simply because of the change in percentage required.

Because of the requirements for vehicle build location, battery assembly location, and battery mineral sourcing, car makers are in the process of making changes on where they will build their vehicles and their batteries. Readers Digest version…they’re looking hard at bringing assembly (spelled j-o-b-s) to the US, Mexico and Canada. They are also striking deals with mines and mineral processors that can affect their compliance and incentive qualifications. My staff is actively consulting with multiple car makers and component suppliers on this issue.

[Camaro fanboy]

loving this nissan leaf for commuting. car comes with an app. the app is saying up to now 600 miles driven and has cost us 12 USD in electric on our fixed rate tariff.
600 miles in a petrol car would have cost us about 120 usd.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Camaro fanboy

loving this nissan leaf for commuting. car comes with an app. the app is saying up to now 600 miles driven and has cost us 12 USD in electric on our fixed rate tariff.
600 miles in a petrol car would have cost us about 120 usd.

I’m a gas car fan so I hate admitting this but if someone has a driveway it really is the superior choice from a fiscal standpoint. Even if you like to take the family on road trips you’ll still come out on top money wise if you rent a gas car for a road trip or two each year. I also hate seeing people with clear bias posting BS about batteries going out in 5, 6 years (which I have seen on this forum before). News flash they come with a MINIMUM 8 year 100k warranty. Many Tesla’s (by the way I hate this company) have proven to go well beyond that point. The majority of people buying new cars don’t even keep their cars that long.

I also keep reading on here people talking about battery degradation. Well your gas engine loses some power and efficiency as well over the years.

Again I will point out that electric cars don’t work for everyone. But for those that it does work for its superior from a FISCAL standpoint. I also agree with people who have posted that they don’t want these first batches/runs of electric cars because they will probably have some issues. When the next Gen of electric cars comes out and I can get them used for 15ish k (I acknowledge this is probably 15 years away) that’s when I will get one. If I wasn’t a fan of gas cars/sports cars and only needed one car for daily driver duties, I’d strongly consider a 3 year old electric car and maybe purchase an extended warranty. I like saving money and it would save me a few thousand a year. I also like that I don’t physically have to go to get it charged and can do it at home.

[90503]

This is not a good sign and pretty hen-house...but it's the inevitable future!...lol

https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/23/...-feature-price

P.S. Happy Thanksgiving.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by 90503

This is not a good sign and pretty hen-house...but it's the inevitable future!...lol

https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/23/...-feature-price

P.S. Happy Thanksgiving.

Stuff like that would make me be petty enough to swap an ICE power plant in one of those even though it would cost me more money. It’s a principle thing for me.

[ChevyRules]

I don’t mind a reasonable one time charge to unlock more power.

$1200/year for it is just freaking nuts.

[Aqua Blue RS/SS]

Yea the automotive future is bleak at best. Pretty sad to see.

[Martinjlm]

Loosely related... An article in today's Automotive News. If you look closely you'll see quotes from somebody you all know and love(?).

U.S. heartland lags in EV sales, but new models should help, S&P Global says
The 22 heartland states have just 16% of national EV share. A slew of new electric models and a push to build more EV chargers is likely to spur greater adoption, the report says.

November 28, 2022 09:59 AM 2 HOURS AGO
LAURENCE ILIFF

Tesla vehicles are so common along the California coast that EV enthusiasts consider them the new Hondas and Toyotas of the local market. But in large swaths of the American heartland, EVs in general remain rare.

The scarcity of EVs in 22 noncoastal states from Nevada to West Virginia will change as more mainstream models hit the market and charging infrastructure improves, S&P Global said in a November report.

"More acceptance and much broader consumer awareness is resulting in a natural progression of [EV] adoption from the coasts to the heartland," said Tom Libby, an analyst at the S&P Global Mobility division. The data firm chose 22 states to represent the heartland, although definitions of the term vary.

While automakers once restricted EV sales to states with zero-emissions mandates, new EV models are being sold across the nation. And the new models come in a greater variety of body styles to better address consumer taste, the report said.

"Automakers are beginning to produce more mainstream electric vehicles," said James Martin, another analyst at S&P Global. "Availability of these vehicles will most likely be a factor in spurring installation of more charging infrastructure."

Recently launched EV models include compact crossovers and pickup trucks, which represent popular vehicle segments regardless of fuel type, according to separate data by Experian.

Notable new EVs this year — by sales — include the Ford F-150 Lightning pickup and the Kia EV6 crossover.


NONCOASTAL STATES LAG IN EV SALES
National EV share by state:
Arkansas 0.2%
Colorado 2.3%
Michigan 1.2%
Minnesota 0.9%
Wyoming 0.0%
(January to August 2022. Source: S&P Global)

Top EV metropolitan markets by share:
Los Angeles 18.9%
New York 6.4%
San Diego 3.3%
San Francisco 10.8%
Seattle 3.0%
(Metro areas through August. Source: S&P Global)

Range anxiety

While most EV drivers charge at home, range anxiety remains a significant obstacle for buyers who take regular trips away from home, according to industry surveys, so greater investment in public chargers is also seen by analysts as a key driver of EV ownership.

The majority of public chargers are along the U.S. coasts, but new laws promoted by the Biden administration will provide significant funds to build stations in regions where EV adoption is low. The new chargers will also provide much faster charging than old ones.

"With $5 billion in electric vehicle charging network funds (and more to come) available under the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, states are lining up for their share of federal largess," S&P Global said. Another set of EV-related incentives is provided by the new Inflation Reduction Act.

"There is no doubt that the lack of charger availability is an influence in Midwestern states," said Martin.

Among the states in the S&P study, Wyoming and North Dakota had the lowest national EV share, at essentially 0 percent in the January to August period. Wyoming had 146 EV sales in the period while North Dakota had 143.

As a group, EV adoption was both low and stagnant among the 22 states compared with coastal states.

"While the heartland states represent 27.1 percent of total U.S. vehicle retail sales through August, their representation in EV adoption has remained stagnant from 2021 into this year at a tepid 15.5 percent share," S&P Global said. "Only Colorado and Nevada (and to a minuscule extent, Utah) out-punch their overall retail share in EV representation."

Other heartland states in the study include Arkansas, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

The biggest EV markets are West Coast metropolitan areas including Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego and Seattle, S&P Global said. New York, Washington, D.C., Miami and Chicago are also in the top 10.

In California, Tesla is the No. 2 brand by volume after Toyota, according to the California New Car Dealers Association. Ford is No. 3 and Honda is No. 4, the association said, citing January to September registrations. Battery-electric vehicles overall represent 16 percent of California sales through September.

While noncoastal regions have a long way to go toward EV adoption, some heartland cities showed progress this year, including Chicago, Las Vegas, Missoula, Mont., and Salt Lake City, S&P Global said.

America's heartland is likely to embrace battery-electric vehicles the way it did Asian cars decades ago — through a process that begins on the U.S. coasts and moves inward.

"The adoption of BEVs is a long-term process that needs to reach an inflection point similar to the adoption or acceptance of Asian-sourced vehicles in the U.S.," Libby said. "That inflection point is when the product becomes generally accepted and it usually occurs when volume and exposure reach a level that influences all the reluctant outliers."

[90503]

Meanwhile, in the BS Department...

https://insideevs.com/news/627208/gm...ong-about-evs/

My favorite is his stated "solution" to EVs overloading the grid....lol...

"Reuss also went over concerns that EVs will overload the grid. He stated that GM is already working to solve this issue and mentioned vehicle-to-vehicle charging and sending unused energy back to the grid during peak hours as possible solutions." This is a solution? Dead batteries and undriveable cars?...lol Just take the bus or any other kind of public transportation no-one cares for...Another "solution".

I didn't take much comfort in any of his statements. I think he knows the all EV transition is un-workable as does most everyone else. This whole fiasco will all be coming to a head sooner than later. My $.02

Merry Christmas!