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Old 09-14-2022, 04:48 PM   #15
Corbu
 
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I am also adding my name on the differential failure list. 2017 SS with 96,000 KM / 60,000 miles. The dealer opened up the fluid plug up and they found a lot of metallic particles inside plus there is clattering when coasting. In Canada they want $5,262 CAD to have it changed. It happened out of the blue while mostly driving on the highway, I am literally miffed.

Can anyone tell me the Part No for a the differential for a 2017 SS Coupe, Automatic transmission, NPP? I am hoping maybe I can find a better deal online for the part.

Or, are there better aftermarket options for the SS? It seems the OEM differential is not made to last.
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Old 09-14-2022, 05:29 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
Also anyone know why there is seems to be no info and no aftermarket support for these differentials? I think AAM made the 5th gen ones, then it looks like maybe all of the manufacturing and tooling got sold to Magna, and then the trail goes cold there.

I guess when you can just swap to a whole different axel conversion, no one bothers trying to make the stock integrated unit work.
Did you ever dig on this anymore to get a good part number or find a better solution that doesn’t break the bank?
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Old 09-14-2022, 11:30 PM   #17
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So I finally got around to getting a Torx Plus EP20 socket to open the housing.

So I am not 100% familiar with how these LSD's work but I would assume like others they should have some preload in the clutches. So I found what looks like a broken in half either shim/clutch backing plate/steel thing that fell out. When it fell out unfortunately it didn't try to avoid anything on the way out and got into the spider/side gears. Also the spider and side gears were very loose and rattling around in there assuming the clutch pack has now lost all its preload:

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So you can see where I drew the arrow where it looks like the clutch/backing plate/steel/shim/washer thing broke from.

I haven't got a chance to read all yall's comments yet but yes I agree these drivelines seem like they are basically crap and a very weak point of the car. It makes sense since it looks like I think the axles, carriers, CVs, driveshaft are made by GKN. I think they make a lot of drivelines for cars especially BMWs and stuff so makes sense why they are breaking so easily and so early haha. I know the 5th Gen had AAM axles which is basically GM's driveline division spun off, with those you can get all the parts you need from them and they are actually engineered well and last. But looks like we have crap on our 6th gens.

I guess its probably had thousands of launches and plenty of donut fun as well on it and a lot of those launches had NT555R2 drag radials on it. I feel better now for just buying a whole new differential and putting it in now that I know mine is done for, unless of course we can find parts somewhere to fix them. I feel like there has got to be some off the shelf type parts maybe from GKN or someone, I did email AAM asking if they sold parts for them and if they make the axles but I never got a response.
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Old 09-14-2022, 11:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbu View Post
I am also adding my name on the differential failure list. 2017 SS with 96,000 KM / 60,000 miles. The dealer opened up the fluid plug up and they found a lot of metallic particles inside plus there is clattering when coasting. In Canada they want $5,262 CAD to have it changed. It happened out of the blue while mostly driving on the highway, I am literally miffed.

Can anyone tell me the Part No for a the differential for a 2017 SS Coupe, Automatic transmission, NPP? I am hoping maybe I can find a better deal online for the part.

Or, are there better aftermarket options for the SS? It seems the OEM differential is not made to last.
Part number is: 84080681
https://www.gmpartsgiant.com/parts/g...;t=M5U;m=1AK37)

I believe there have been some updates I think I put the new updated PN in the beginning of this thread.
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Old 09-14-2022, 11:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Trochoidal View Post
Did you ever dig on this anymore to get a good part number or find a better solution that doesn’t break the bank?
I also wonder if we could maybe adapt the 5th gen style axle? I wouldn't think so, or at least I wouldn't think it would be anything easy or worth doing probably.
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Old 10-01-2022, 11:43 AM   #20
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$1568.28 for a new GM Carrier Assembly is a good price.

You can also find junk yards online that sell the differential.

The ultimate choice is something from the Drive shaft shop https://driveshaftshop.com or GForce Engineering https://gforce1320.com. In both cases plan on spending 8-9k for their conversion kits.

You bite the bullet on the conversion kits, but then you have all kinds of choices with the nine-inch differential. You can drive cross country with a 3.08 gear, then change to a 4.56 spool for dragstrip acceleration. Differential carriers are aplenty on e-bay. Changing the carrier is relatively fast and easy.

If buying a used carrier look for the "N" cast into the front of the case. It's the stronger nodular iron carrier.
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Old 10-01-2022, 09:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
So I finally got around to getting a Torx Plus EP20 socket to open the housing.

So I am not 100% familiar with how these LSD's work but I would assume like others they should have some preload in the clutches. So I found what looks like a broken in half either shim/clutch backing plate/steel thing that fell out. When it fell out unfortunately it didn't try to avoid anything on the way out and got into the spider/side gears. Also the spider and side gears were very loose and rattling around in there assuming the clutch pack has now lost all its preload:

Attachment 1108854

Attachment 1108855

Attachment 1108856

Attachment 1108857

So you can see where I drew the arrow where it looks like the clutch/backing plate/steel/shim/washer thing broke from.

I haven't got a chance to read all yall's comments yet but yes I agree these drivelines seem like they are basically crap and a very weak point of the car. It makes sense since it looks like I think the axles, carriers, CVs, driveshaft are made by GKN. I think they make a lot of drivelines for cars especially BMWs and stuff so makes sense why they are breaking so easily and so early haha. I know the 5th Gen had AAM axles which is basically GM's driveline division spun off, with those you can get all the parts you need from them and they are actually engineered well and last. But looks like we have crap on our 6th gens.

I guess its probably had thousands of launches and plenty of donut fun as well on it and a lot of those launches had NT555R2 drag radials on it. I feel better now for just buying a whole new differential and putting it in now that I know mine is done for, unless of course we can find parts somewhere to fix them. I feel like there has got to be some off the shelf type parts maybe from GKN or someone, I did email AAM asking if they sold parts for them and if they make the axles but I never got a response.
What a mess inside. This is a rhetorical question, but why are there not more of these differentials failing?

No response from AAM?! I’d like to say I’m surprised but it seems par for the course. So many industries don’t offer support. I really believe they’d rather you buy an new differential versus letting you buy parts to do your own repair.

I remember blowing a 10 bolt (I knew it was a weak link) and replaced it with a 9”. Piece of cake after narrowing the housing and getting shorter axles. Granted it wasn’t IRS but the 9” had and still has robust support for upgraded parts.
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Originally Posted by arpad_m - “Aww, yet another oil thread with almost the same question in the OP“
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Old 10-03-2022, 07:07 AM   #22
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I didn't have mine break while I owned it, it went thru 250 or more passes down the track and 12500 miles. It finally broke at a SCT event in St Louis in 2021 with the new owner. He found a stock used one at a salvage yard and its still in the car today. It still has the original A8 trans and converter after all the abuse I gave it.
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Old 10-03-2022, 02:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by laynlo15 View Post
I didn't have mine break while I owned it, it went thru 250 or more passes down the track and 12500 miles. It finally broke at a SCT event in St Louis in 2021 with the new owner. He found a stock used one at a salvage yard and its still in the car today. It still has the original A8 trans and converter after all the abuse I gave it.
That’s pretty damn impressive. I’m still on the stock diff, converter, and trans too so I think they’re generally pretty robust from what I’ve seen on this board the past few years. There are always exceptions of course, but the average SS owner seems to be doing pretty darn well.
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Old 10-03-2022, 09:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Trochoidal View Post
What a mess inside. This is a rhetorical question, but why are there not more of these differentials failing?

No response from AAM?! I’d like to say I’m surprised but it seems par for the course. So many industries don’t offer support. I really believe they’d rather you buy an new differential versus letting you buy parts to do your own repair.

I remember blowing a 10 bolt (I knew it was a weak link) and replaced it with a 9”. Piece of cake after narrowing the housing and getting shorter axles. Granted it wasn’t IRS but the 9” had and still has robust support for upgraded parts.
Did you have to do much shimming to get the backlash and stuff right? I want to do more gear changing projects but I have never really tried this process myself, it doesn't seem to difficult the problem seems to be not so quantitative and open to interpretation trying to read the gear contact patch and getting it right. Seems like it could easily turn into a PITA not getting it right and running parts over and over again.

And yes no response from AAM, but I really don't think they make anything for this differential or driveshaft or anything.
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Old 10-03-2022, 09:32 PM   #25
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So I also forgot to add my car was hit on the passenger side rear wheel when I first got it, it ended up breaking the CV shaft and bending a bunch of stuff and maybe some other stuff I can't remember.

I kind of wondered if maybe the high impact could have jarred something. I can't really tell if one of the right or left spider (side) gears are any more losse and jiggeling around than the other. I guess if one side looses preload than both loose preload at the same time?

I wonder if I could try to press the pin out of the carrier and try to take it apart? I guess it can't hurt anything since its got broken teeth and you can't buy parts for it. I am really hoping maybe someone broke their covers or maybe cooler or the whole cast carrier with welded ring gear to it and maybe they can use it or I can sell it, I hate it when I just have wasted things I can't do anything with or can't sell them or even give them away.

I know there was a thread on here a long time ago about the ring gear being welded to the carrier assembly which is the main reason that locks us out of gear changes. It looks like a laser weld and probably something the average shop couldn't replicate.

However, I would think if GKN does really make this there maybe some parts sharing with other platforms that may have some aftermarket.. maybe?
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Old 10-03-2022, 09:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
Did you have to do much shimming to get the backlash and stuff right? I want to do more gear changing projects but I have never really tried this process myself, it doesn't seem to difficult the problem seems to be not so quantitative and open to interpretation trying to read the gear contact patch and getting it right. Seems like it could easily turn into a PITA not getting it right and running parts over and over again.

And yes no response from AAM, but I really don't think they make anything for this differential or driveshaft or anything.
No there wasn’t much shimming required and getting the contact patch correct generally only takes me 2 adjustments. Full disclosure, I’m a 40+ machinist by trade. Doing automotive work like setting up a rear is right in my wheelhouse. If this is your first time, some reading and watching videos will get you up to speed quickly. I’ve set up a lot of rears but all of them have been 9” Fords.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
So I also forgot to add my car was hit on the passenger side rear wheel when I first got it, it ended up breaking the CV shaft and bending a bunch of stuff and maybe some other stuff I can't remember.

I kind of wondered if maybe the high impact could have jarred something. I can't really tell if one of the right or left spider (side) gears are any more losse and jiggeling around than the other. I guess if one side looses preload than both loose preload at the same time?

I wonder if I could try to press the pin out of the carrier and try to take it apart? I guess it can't hurt anything since its got broken teeth and you can't buy parts for it. I am really hoping maybe someone broke their covers or maybe cooler or the whole cast carrier with welded ring gear to it and maybe they can use it or I can sell it, I hate it when I just have wasted things I can't do anything with or can't sell them or even give them away.

I know there was a thread on here a long time ago about the ring gear being welded to the carrier assembly which is the main reason that locks us out of gear changes. It looks like a laser weld and probably something the average shop couldn't replicate.

However, I would think if GKN does really make this there maybe some parts sharing with other platforms that may have some aftermarket.. maybe?
I’d speculate your accident contributed to the failure. I say this because that broken part looks like it was a fractured break and not something you’d see from rotating parts. What I mean is the steel used probably wasn’t some good alloy like a 4140 or 4340. But without actually having handled that part it’s hard to say. Anyway, back to the broken part. If that was hardened to say 35 to 40 HRC I could see it not taking any lateral shock without failure.

As for knocking out the pin and taking it apart, I’d do it just because like you I’d want to see what could be rebuilt.

Laser welded? Maybe it was fuse welded with a tig. Snap a picture and upload it if you get the time.
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Old 10-03-2022, 10:54 PM   #27
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This is the weld:
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The pinion bearing kind of feels a little too rough as well when you spin it kind of feels like some grit is in the bearing. So before I pulled the differential apart the noise was only made when driving in a straight line with a engine driven load and the noise stopped when the gears were in the neutral state and also when the wheels were back-driving the engine.

I was going to try to pull the pinion shaft off, which obviously the service manual says don't mess with it and especially don't mess with the pinion nut. Not sure I can get the pinion nut loose and I don't think I have a socket to fit it, I also have to get the seal off first. I could probably get it off with brute force but I would be trying to not mess up the seal if I don't have too. Seems like I almost need a very tiny bearing separator to get up in between the seal and pull it off.
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Old 10-04-2022, 06:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Trochoidal View Post
No there wasn’t much shimming required and getting the contact patch correct generally only takes me 2 adjustments. Full disclosure, I’m a 40+ machinist by trade. Doing automotive work like setting up a rear is right in my wheelhouse. If this is your first time, some reading and watching videos will get you up to speed quickly. I’ve set up a lot of rears but all of them have been 9” Fords.



I’d speculate your accident contributed to the failure. I say this because that broken part looks like it was a fractured break and not something you’d see from rotating parts. What I mean is the steel used probably wasn’t some good alloy like a 4140 or 4340. But without actually having handled that part it’s hard to say. Anyway, back to the broken part. If that was hardened to say 35 to 40 HRC I could see it not taking any lateral shock without failure.

As for knocking out the pin and taking it apart, I’d do it just because like you I’d want to see what could be rebuilt.

Laser welded? Maybe it was fuse welded with a tig. Snap a picture and upload it if you get the time.
As for the part you are talking about, is it the washer/backing plate looking thing that broke in half? I guess this is a backing plate to the clutches on each side gear in the carrier, but maybe its something else. Either way like you say may be treated to obtain mechanical characteristics similar to what they do with the fancy "race" transmission clutch backing plates and kolene steels. Although I think those use different, more chemical like, processes like nitriding.

I am just not sure a shock load would effectively transfer all the way up to them and the load path is in between them. I really would hope it did cause it and this superior European differential isn't that big of a POS haha.
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