[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Interesting, I am also on a very tight VERY technical track (former F1 back driver said it’s the 3rd most technical track he’s ever been on) which has 19 turns and only takes 1:20 for me to get around, my 3R’s last me 2 track days which is four sessions per day and I drive very hard. Feel free to look on YouTube “Camaro VIMC” I had -2.5 camber on the front and psi of 26 cold which got up to about 35 hot.

But it was the insides of my tires that corded first, I’m not sure if this has anything to do with the many off camber corners on the track...

That is an awesome track. I think we can look at the amount of steering input on a track like VIMC and it's relationship to accelerated tire wear. That track requires alot of steering and with the Camaro's less than desirable geometry, that doesn't help the inner shoulder.

I think there may be a relationship with the outer shoulder wear and the low static pressures and how hard a driver may push the car on the first lap or two of a session. Especially session 1. While GM recommends 26psi, I think some drivers go pretty hard right off the bat and that will not help the outer shoulder, even with high camber #s. There just isn't enough pressure to keep the sidewall from rolling over. And on the unloaded tire in a turn, those low pressures may be hurting the inner shoulder too.

So if we start at 30psi, take it easy on those shoulders the first or second lap in, we will find that we can be less aggressive (< -3*) on the static camber. Being less aggressive on the static camber then helps the inner shoulder wear. Though, this looks to not be the case for you, Gun MetalGrey.

Note that GM recommends toe in. Zero and toe out are not helping the inner shoulders.

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by cre8fun

SS 1LE on Apex 19" with ZLE sized 3R's. here's the fronts after one Chin day at Pitt Race: went out 26psi cold warming to 33ish hot. LF outer edge is peeling and RF inner is worn pretty good. So more camber would not have helped.



following this, I swapped right to left and ran one session at VIR before the peeling tire was done. ran the one with the inner edge a full second day and then it was done (at higher press though - at VIR went out 29 and ran 38 hot). will get shots of second set. one of them has 2 days on it and still has some life left (running 37 hot. - that gave me more life, but it's a bit too greasy). going to aim for 35 hot next time and see what that gives

cre8fun, what were your alignment specs for the Pitt Race event?

While I am in a Gen5 1LE, there is enough similarity in the suspension design and overall vehicle platform that we can compare. I also run the 3R at Pitt Race, 305/30-19. I've settled on -2.5/1.6 with about 3mm toe in at the front for the next event. I too have worn my inner shoulders before the outer. I start out at 30-31 psi and "try" to baby the tires the first 1.5 to 2 laps. I also have been swapping the RF and LF during the events recently just to try and even out the wear.

I've looked at running an asymmetrical alignment, less RF camber than the LF, but just haven't done it.

[cre8fun]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

cre8fun, what were your alignment specs for the Pitt Race event?

While I am in a Gen5 1LE, there is enough similarity in the suspension design and overall vehicle platform that we can compare. I also run the 3R at Pitt Race, 305/30-19. I've settled on -2.5/1.6 with about 3mm toe in at the front for the next event. I too have worn my inner shoulders before the outer. I start out at 30-31 psi and "try" to baby the tires the first 1.5 to 2 laps. I also have been swapping the RF and LF during the events recently just to try and even out the wear.

I've looked at running an asymmetrical alignment, less RF camber than the LF, but just haven't done it.

Front
-2.4C
1mm toe out

Rear
-1.4C
0 toe

[Zl1+911]

If u are pushing the car at pace (as is evident by tire wear), ur camber is way low. I run -3.7 and 3.5 left and right in the front (most turns are right handlers) and -2.2 in the back. I run slight toe out too and it works fine.

I would say step 1 u need more camber

[cbourbs]

Originally Posted by ponyboy96

So far I’ve gotten 4 track days, 2 mountain cruises and 3400 miles out of mine. Hoping they last through this upcoming weekend’s track event. I’m going to guess no, but at this point they don’t owe me anything.

Wow...that's insane how much more life you're getting out of those things than I am.

[cbourbs]

Originally Posted by Zl1+911

If u are pushing the car at pace (as is evident by tire wear), ur camber is way low. I run -3.7 and 3.5 left and right in the front (most turns are right handlers) and -2.2 in the back. I run slight toe out too and it works fine.

I would say step 1 u need more camber

I actually just talked to a goodyear racing rep yesterday. He looked over the track I go to here in Edmonton (castrol raceway) and he said it was a very technical track and the banked turn really chews up the outer edge of the the tire on the one side.

I explained my issues. He recommended camber adjustment from -2.7 I have now to -3.5. Then up the tire pressure cold on the fronts to 33psi and run hot at 40PSI and that should make a big difference. He also said ensure to try and drive 50-60km on the road before I go to the track to get them at least 1ish heat cycle.

The last set of fronts had 1 tire start to delaminate after 7 sessions in one day and I ran between 20-25 minutes each one. Did 2 warm up laps every time. Started at 30psi and ran hot to 37psi. I didn't do a heat cycle before the track. I just mounted them and drove to the track which is about 10 minutes away.

Just as a note: I was also trying to run 4 hard laps with 2 cool down laps and then do it all over again. But when I do run the 4 hard laps I run as hard as I can.

[Zl1+911]

I think more camber 3.5 will really help. Starting warm with 30+ psi will help. I am not sure going to 37+ hot is going to be good- I start to notice declining grip around 35, but compromise at 37, I feel higher than 37 will be sliding....

[cbourbs]

Originally Posted by Zl1+911

I think more camber 3.5 will really help. Starting warm with 30+ psi will help. I am not sure going to 37+ hot is going to be good- I start to notice declining grip around 35, but compromise at 37, I feel higher than 37 will be sliding....

I'll see how it goes on the next track day with the new changes. I'll try and do the 40PSI on the fronts and if it's too greasy like you said I'll back down to the 37.

Hoping to get 20 ish sessions out of the front tires.

[Zl1+911]

keep us posted! when is your next day?

[cbourbs]

Originally Posted by Zl1+911

keep us posted! when is your next day?

Will do...next day is June 18th

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

That is an awesome track. I think we can look at the amount of steering input on a track like VIMC and it's relationship to accelerated tire wear. That track requires alot of steering and with the Camaro's less than desirable geometry, that doesn't help the inner shoulder.

I think there may be a relationship with the outer shoulder wear and the low static pressures and how hard a driver may push the car on the first lap or two of a session. Especially session 1. While GM recommends 26psi, I think some drivers go pretty hard right off the bat and that will not help the outer shoulder, even with high camber #s. There just isn't enough pressure to keep the sidewall from rolling over. And on the unloaded tire in a turn, those low pressures may be hurting the inner shoulder too.

So if we start at 30psi, take it easy on those shoulders the first or second lap in, we will find that we can be less aggressive (< -3*) on the static camber. Being less aggressive on the static camber then helps the inner shoulder wear. Though, this looks to not be the case for you, Gun MetalGrey.

Note that GM recommends toe in. Zero and toe out are not helping the inner shoulders.

What is the less than desirable geometry in the Camaro you are referring to?

I do three warm up laps before pushing the car as hard as I can, but noticed some squirming under hard braking, I presumed because the tires weren’t up to the right pressure yet.

I’m assuming that increasing the camber from -2.5 to -.3.3 on the front will only make the inside wear worse, but I’m starting to use a pyrometer on the tires to see what the heat across the face of the tire is looking like

It’s very interesting to see that other people are struggling with outter tire wear, honestly is the first time I’ve heard of that with this tire, everybody else I have run into on this forum struggles with inner edge cording

[cbourbs]

So I ended up putting new front supercar 3r tires. I also took the car for a good long drive and got the tires up to temperature. I then let them sit 24hrs before bringing to the track.

I also changed the camber from -2.7 to -3.1. On the track day I started all 4 of them at 33 PSI and got them hot to where they got up to 43PSI by the end of the session. After I got back from session 1 i immediately reduced the pressure down to 39PSI. So for the rest of the other 4 session they would start at around 32PSI and be hot at about 40PSI.

The outside temperature from the day started off around 15C and through the course of the day got to 23C and it was sunny the entire day.

The wear on the outside of the tires is more than the inside for sure on all 4 tires. The tire that started delaminated last time I went on 1 track day was the outside front tire (right hand turn track).

The overall tire wear has be meaningfully improved. The tire seems to be wearing much more evenly. I probably could go to -3.5 camber on the front to even it out even more. The front now have about 5 twenty minute session and the rears have 12 twenty minute session. I will see how the wear is after the next track day. Hoping to get 5-10 more 20 minute session out of the front and rear tires.

[Zl1+911]

That’s good. Yea I would go to -3.5 - esp for the outer front. It’s fine to have a slight variance in camber if that’s the main track u run at (or run mostly at right hand tracks). I do think that going above 37 hot will not help a lot and will reduce ur grip- esp in the back. Since the wear problem is limited to the front - I never let the back go past 36 hot. The car needs the back end grip and keeping to 36 helps. Even in the front after the first session try to start at 30 hot with 3 warm up laps (which for 3r should be a standard protocol just for safety honestly) and then push the car.

[cbourbs]

Originally Posted by Zl1+911

That’s good. Yea I would go to -3.5 - esp for the outer front. It’s fine to have a slight variance in camber if that’s the main track u run at (or run mostly at right hand tracks). I do think that going above 37 hot will not help a lot and will reduce ur grip- esp in the back. Since the wear problem is limited to the front - I never let the back go past 36 hot. The car needs the back end grip and keeping to 36 helps. Even in the front after the first session try to start at 30 hot with 3 warm up laps (which for 3r should be a standard protocol just for safety honestly) and then push the car.

I think I will put the outside front to -3.5 and the inside tire at -3.1. There is another track being built I will be going to as well and it is also a right hand turn track.

Wear is still more on the outside of the tire even on the backs. I just put the rears at the Camaro recommended track spec. Would you go more camber on the back as well?