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Old 04-25-2018, 02:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by cooper1965 View Post
?
Maybe I pulled the wrong one. But I copied that title into google and opened it. It said 2015 to 2017. So I’m not sure.
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:50 PM   #16
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Maybe I pulled the wrong one. But I copied that title into google and opened it. It said 2015 to 2017. So I’m not sure.
The document has been revised 7 times that I know of. Probably an old version on google. No biggie. I'm just trying to understand like everyone else.
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:53 PM   #17
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Thank you for the reply from Al! I sincerely appreciate him taking the time to address our issues and give us an explanation! And thank you to Camaro5 for the opportunity to ask questions to the GM Team!!

I just picked mine up from the shop. This will be the second flush I've received. I spoke to the foreman and he said he thinks that when they did the flush the first time that the ATF bottles looks the same but the manufacturer date had to be past a certain date. He says now they made sure that the date was correct and they used Mobile 1 but did not replace the filter. Says they couldn't duplicate the shudder when it went in, (yet it does it all the time). I was honestly expecting a new torque converter, especially since I've already been through one round of flushing. I explained to him that I was an early production, my production date is 6/2016, so I'm one of the ones that could of had the issue even after the first flush. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this fixed it.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:05 PM   #18
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Haven’t people had the TC replaced only for the shudder to return? Maybe they replaced the TC but still used the old fluid?
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:36 PM   #19
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Haven’t people had the TC replaced only for the shudder to return? Maybe they replaced the TC but still used the old fluid?
I’ve seen people make this complaint here.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:43 PM   #20
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SOP for 2018 MY was June 2017.
Al says they fixed it in production March of 17 and the TSB lists the end of 2017 production as the breakpoint. Looks like a two month overlap for a clean breaking point (MY17) or to allow an overlap.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:51 PM   #21
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Al's Answer:

This round of “Ask Al” focuses on the Camaro 8-Speed Automatic Transmission. I want to be clear in that we will only be talking about the Camaro application, not any other GM products in this response. You asked for information on the complaint of Transmission Shudder. We define “shudder” as a shake or vibration during light throttle acceleration, and it usually occurs between 25 and 80 mph (40 and 128 kph) at a Steady State. I hope we have generally categorized the concern properly to what you are experiencing.

We regret that we did experience a number of customer warranty cases in the 2016 Model Year. While the 2016 Model Year was a fairly short one, we did our best to rapidly collect enough data about the fluid to determine a solution. The initial findings showed an issue with the quality of the friction modifier in the fluid collected from customer cars. This is an additive to the transmission fluid to prevent a ‘shudder’ feeling during a torque converter clutch operation. If a car that is experiencing shudder is not serviced early, the torque converter clutch material could become burnished and may require a torque converter replacement. The dealer has a specific service procedure that they will follow to determine the required service for your vehicle. So, if you believe you are experiencing shudder, see your Chevy dealer right away, because the earlier you get it serviced, the better. Please keep in mind, not all 8-Speed Automatic Transmissions exhibit this issue.

So, what is the service procedure? Once we determined the issue was due to the quality of the friction modifier in the fluid, we developed a service procedure to flush and fill the transmission fluid 3 times, which eliminates most of the shudder concerns. This service process may not work for a vehicle with shudder that goes too long without service, in which case it will most likely require a new torque converter. Since we started using Dexron HP transmission fluid in March of 2017 both in production and for service, we believe we have basically eliminated the shudder. When used for service, it only requires a single flush and fill.

To summarize, if you have not experienced the shudder, you probably won’t experience the issue. If you have a 2016 or 2017 (built before March 2017) that is experiencing transmission shudder, you should get it serviced as soon as possible. If you had the ‘triple flush’ and your problem is fixed, great. If not, you will likely need a new torque converter. As always, your first stop with questions is your qualified Chevrolet dealer service station.
It's an unfortunate situation, with a whole variety of combinations of what may or may not have been done...And it seems there is really no explanation of why some transmissions do not have this problem and are no different than the ones that did have a problem....or, all of them just may not have had issues "yet"...

Personally, if I were in the market for a used Camaro, I would steer clear of the A8. Too many variables and too much relying on the luck of the draw and a likely untraceable or honest maintenance history.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:54 PM   #22
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Al says they fixed it in production March of 17 and the TSB lists the end of 2017 production as the breakpoint. Looks like a two month overlap for a clean breaking point (MY17) or to allow an overlap.
No. Al says they fixed it March of 17, the SI document states EOP (end of production) That includes all RPO's I previously posted. More than a few months of overlap.
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:10 PM   #23
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No. Al says they fixed it March of 17, the SI document states EOP (end of production) That includes all RPO's I previously posted. More than a few months of overlap.
Would this be significant? Sorry, I do not know that the RPO's, etc. pertain to.
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Al's Answer:

I want to be clear in that we will only be talking about the Camaro application, not any other GM products in this response.
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:21 PM   #24
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Would this be significant? Sorry, I do not know that the RPO's, etc. pertain to.

I'm not sure what you are getting at, or not understanding/trying to say. Are you reading the current SI document??
I don't want to start a pissing match. I can read, and I completely understand what AL said. The problem is the answer contradicts what GM is telling the dealer's on the service side as far as what is affected, and how to repair the concern.
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Gunmetalmissle View Post
Haven’t people had the TC replaced only for the shudder to return? Maybe they replaced the TC but still used the old fluid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninetres View Post
I’ve seen people make this complaint here.
Well I can tell you the guys who I have seen get the issue after the TC replacement were all early on, '16- mid '17. Mine was replaced in Nov '17 and with 3K+ the issue hasn't returned. I bet they were still using bad fluid which nuked the replacement TCs in those few cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooper1965 View Post
No. Al says they fixed it March of 17, the SI document states EOP (end of production) That includes all RPO's I previously posted. More than a few months of overlap.
There was a thread not long ago with a large number of MY18 owners and not one had the shudder issue with various mileage. That can't be said for MY16 or MY17 which you could easily find a lot of SS owners with the shudder.


As for the slip values, it's not hard to see how an additive designed to stop shudder that was insufficient would be the root cause. Disabling the slip tables was the band-aid, because all you were doing was removing the reason for the additive to exist in the first place. No conspiracy theories needed. Now the reasons/benefits of the slip tables is another story, but think we can leave that to another thread.

I for one and glad Al and team took the time to answer this one. It gives me greater confidence in the repairs to mine. But like someone mentioned about used A8 cars, definitely a good reason for concern if buying one out of warranty or close to it.
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:34 PM   #26
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I'm not sure what you are getting at, or not understanding/trying to say. Are you reading the current SI document??
I don't want to start a pissing match. I can read, and I completely understand what AL said. The problem is the answer contradicts what GM is telling the dealer's on the service side as far as what is affected, and how to repair the concern.
The text is small. I understood we are talking through end of 2017 production based on comment...
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Originally Posted by Childs Play View Post
Hmm.. When did they start building MY18 vehicles? Could have been a few in there before they fully implemented the fix? Although March 2017 sounds pretty early for MY18.
and
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevyRules View Post
SOP for 2018 MY was June 2017.
Al said he was speaking only for Camaro. The TSB is not model specific regarding date range
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Last edited by hotlap; 04-25-2018 at 05:19 PM. Reason: Red
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:51 PM   #27
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Just to be clear. The SI document does specifically list Camaro, the year range, and the RPO's affected. We are still doing these on 2018's, billing GM with unique Labor Operation 8480478* and getting paid. Now there is a significant drop in 2018 complaints and warranty claims. Did they change something in the tune? Who knows.
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Old 04-25-2018, 05:54 PM   #28
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Just to be clear. The SI document does specifically list Camaro, the year range, and the RPO's affected. We are still doing these on 2018's, billing GM with unique Labor Operation 8480478* and getting paid. Now there is a significant drop in 2018 complaints and warranty claims. Did they change something in the tune? Who knows.
...Not seeing the year range mentioned, but was also wondering exactly when were the dealers notified to stop using the original tranny fluid for a triple flush, and when exactly was the new fluid and single flush procedure implemented?....Originally new torque converters were installed, but the same old "bad" fluid put back in?....Some of the original "fixes" could all have to be repeated...???...

Were dealers and service departments made aware of the build dates of the Camaros and the cut-off date of when the up-graded trans fluid was used from the factory? I ask only because I've never noticed one thread where the customer states, "Hey, guess what? there's a new tranny fluid that fixes the problem!"

Sheesh....what a mess....

Last edited by 90503; 04-25-2018 at 06:17 PM.
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