[94boosted]

Originally Posted by apexit53

Its more a matter of FS is failing to make numbers anywhere. Stupid people like us that enjoy this sport buy the performance versions(1LE) and are more likely to compete, vs people off the street that buys a regular ss.

x2, it's not like you see a lot of regular Camaro SS's and Mustang GT's in FS as it is. Throwing the 1LE/PP2/Mach 1 into FS won't change that but should help the overall class turnout as the the track ponies are somewhat popular even in BS.

Originally Posted by apexit53

Other than the brake issue "fix" and maybe an updated front end... idk id keep the rare krypton green

In the ~40 events I've done in the car I think I've only experienced ice mode once or twice thankfully.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

On the F-street thing, it's only fair if you let base models use the same wheel sizes as the track pack cars. A Camaro SS runs 245/275 stock. A 1LE can fit 305/325 on stock wheel widths. How is this remotely fair?

The E90 M3 is already demolishing "regular" Camaro SS and Mustang GTs in FS. That's why the class is dying: right now you have to buy a near-unicorn (E90 M3 Competition) old German car (last year for it was 2013) to be competitive. And if you find a low-miles example in very good condition, it will cost nearly as much as a brand-new 1LE. So bringing in the "track ponies" will open the class up for a lot more options, and they are neither limited nor especially expensive. It will also get the pony cars out of BS, where they aren't competitive with M2 Comps and new Supras (which cost twice as much), and probably the C6 Z51 and Porsche 911 996 (if 30742 also passes).

My take is that if you want to be competitive in FS with a pony car, you should expect to buy the top-performance version of that car. We can't have a class where every option package of every car on the market is equally competitive: one could say that an SS is unfair for the same reason, because an LT1 comes on even narrower tires and it won't be competitive against the SS. I did some checking yesterday, and you can order an SS with Magnaride shocks, the Brembo big brakes, and Recaro seats as standalone options. Or you can order the 1LE package that has those options plus a lot more, and it costs $15 more. That's not a typo: there was only $15 difference in price between the two. And the 1LE isn't limited production like it was in the 90s. So people should just get the 1LE if they want to compete in FS (assuming this proposed change goes through).

[joelster]

Watch how many 1LE's climb up the pax charts at locals everywhere with the soft FS pax. Typical stupidity.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Well... Turn-in and power down are very much improved with the GMPP autox tune... it's a really big difference! I've done some runs w/o the tune and both turn-in and exit are less predictable and the car is not nearly as fun to drive. The way the car rotates with the tune is awesome. Otherwise you're certainly better off w/o the e-lsd.

On the F-street thing, it's only fair if you let base models use the same wheel sizes as the track pack cars. A Camaro SS runs 245/275 stock. A 1LE can fit 305/325 on stock wheel widths. How is this remotely fair?

I wish a “Performance dealer” in so cal would do the tune. None will, cite liability issues as they no nothing about it nor done one. One dealer out in the high desert will, for $1000!

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by VR Baron

I wish a “Performance dealer” in so cal would do the tune. None will, cite liability issues as they no nothing about it nor done one. One dealer out in the high desert will, for $1000!

If you're ever coming through Denver, Stevinson Chevy did it for me for $350.

It's a GMPP product, all the dealer has to do is call GMPP and ask for instructions... should be easy!

If a dealer is refusing I'd contact GMPP and let them know their own dealer is refusing to sell one of their products.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

If you're ever coming through Denver, Stevinson Chevy did it for me for $350.

It's a GMPP product, all the dealer has to do is call GMPP and ask for instructions... should be easy!

If a dealer is refusing I'd contact GMPP and let them know their own dealer is refusing to sell one of their products.

Thanks! I will try a few more. The ones close to me said no. Other then the one I mentioned. And will call gmpp. Maybe they have other dealers.

[Scargoes]

Originally Posted by AustinTXracer

I got the kangs working this weekend. Impressive tires once they break in.

Wow, mine didn't need to be broken in. They worked very well right out of the box, both the 18s and 19s. But glad you got them to work for you.

[apexit53]

Originally Posted by joelster

Watch how many 1LE's climb up the pax charts at locals everywhere with the soft FS pax. Typical stupidity.

if and when this goes through next year, PAX will be fixed.

[joelster]

Originally Posted by apexit53

if and when this goes through next year, PAX will be fixed.

So let me get this straight. They're going to move the highly BS-competitive SS 1LE out of BS and put it into FS and then make the PAX for FS tougher? To help combat against the "ringer" 2011 BMW M3 CC that has been dominant in FS for years? Why don't they just move the BMW into BS?

[DaveC113]

I think they want FS to be a stock version of CAM-C or something. Grouping by type instead of actual performance.

IMO, it's misguided. It combines a bunch of cars that are not equal in performance and makes it so non-track pack cars can't be competitive in their own class. I don't think this is ok and it's exclusionary to new folks w/o track-pack Camaros and Mustangs.

And didn't they just add STS which includes a bunch of AS type cars, as well as higher-end Mustangs and Camaros?

It seems like SCCA needs to make a decision on how to organize classes, IMO it should be by actual performance otherwise PAX will become (even more) meaningless. IMO PAX is already dumb and should be eliminated, but that's another issue altogether. I see a lot of people PAX hunting trying to find ringer cars for the class, I don't get it and think it encourages some questionable practices having to do with simply finding ringer cars and not making the car better or driving better, which should be the focus IMO.

Hate to say it, but I will be writing a letter NOT in favor of moving our cars to FS.

[apexit53]

Originally Posted by joelster

So let me get this straight. They're going to move the highly BS-competitive SS 1LE out of BS and put it into FS and then make the PAX for FS tougher? To help combat against the "ringer" 2011 BMW M3 CC that has been dominant in FS for years? Why don't they just move the BMW into BS?

They will make FS PAX harder to reflect the faster cars moving into FS so that the new crop of FS cars aren't FS ringers right away.

You're about two years behind on that letter to move the m3 to BS lol.

FS number are falling off, no one is racing the base SS, or really a 5th gen 1le. The BS muscle cars are healthy numbers and BS can survive without them.

So best of breed comes into play. Thus the Mach 1 and 1le additions

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by apexit53

The BS muscle cars are healthy numbers and BS can survive without them.

BS is falling off big time around here, just a few cars out out of over a hundred registered lately.

[apexit53]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

I think they want FS to be a stock version of CAM-C or something. Grouping by type instead of actual performance.

IMO, it's misguided. It combines a bunch of cars that are not equal in performance and makes it so non-track pack cars can't be competitive in their own class. I don't think this is ok and it's exclusionary to new folks w/o track-pack Camaros and Mustangs.

And didn't they just add STS which includes a bunch of AS type cars, as well as higher-end Mustangs and Camaros?

It seems like SCCA needs to make a decision on how to organize classes, IMO it should be by actual performance otherwise PAX will become (even more) meaningless. IMO PAX is already dumb and should be eliminated, but that's another issue altogether. I see a lot of people PAX hunting trying to find ringer cars for the class, I don't get it and think it encourages some questionable practices having to do with simply finding ringer cars and not making the car better or driving better, which should be the focus IMO.

Hate to say it, but I will be writing a letter NOT in favor of moving our cars to FS.

Maybe the people that raced base SS cars should have showed up to national events and this wouldn't be an issue. SCCA doesn't care about local numbers, its all bout tour and pro numbers.

[DaveC113]

So what's the new FS PAX going to be? Same as BS? Lol... maybe they should just combine FS and BS then.

There are too many classes anyways.