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Old 05-02-2018, 05:29 PM   #29
396ssrat

 
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Actually in 1985 they had the Iroc-Z and it was a handling sob for it's time. It was a whopping 215 hp. 700r4 transmission. .94g's on the skid pad which, in 1985 wasn't bad.
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Old 05-02-2018, 11:04 PM   #30
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.94 gs on the skid pad is really good for 1985 tire technology, I can see why the Iroc Z is the 3rd generation Camaro to have.
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Old 05-03-2018, 02:27 AM   #31
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Actually in 1985 they had the Iroc-Z and it was a handling sob for it's time. It was a whopping 215 hp. 700r4 transmission. .94g's on the skid pad which, in 1985 wasn't bad.
The TPI engines were built for low end torque. At the time it was about the best tech they had to meet EPA and still make the car "fun". Handling and acceleration was the deal back then.
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Old 05-03-2018, 11:53 AM   #32
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The TPI engines were built for low end torque. At the time it was about the best tech they had to meet EPA and still make the car "fun". Handling and acceleration was the deal back then.
With the huge by tiny 305 inches. I had one of these beast's and actually used it to tow my boat with. It did a fine job at towing 2500lbs.
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Old 05-03-2018, 04:57 PM   #33
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GM isn’t going to respond to anything.

The Camaro is what it is. GM doesn’t really care how it does, relative to the competition.
Sorry....but I strongly disagree.

The only reason these modern day versions of the "pony car wars" exist is competition.

The ZL1 1LE was a response to the GT350R, which was a response to the Gen 5 Z/28, which was a response to the Boss 302.....etc. etc.

In my opinion the long delay in the current version of the GT500 is that the ZL1 1LE set that next bar a fair amount higher than Ford saw coming. Well....that and some of the engine problems they are having with the GT350.

This competition is driving continued leaps in performance and whether you are a Chevy or a Ford guy - this is good for all of us.

Team Camaro will have a response to the GT500. Count on it. I don't have a clue what that might be.....we can all speculate and that is fun......but another bigger/faster/stronger Camaro will be coming.

One more reason I firmly believe this is true is that it would make absolutely zero sense for the "best" (defined by performance, etc.) Gen 6 Camaro to come only three years into the Gen 6 cycle. There is a lot more runway left for the Gen 6 platform and there is no way Team Camaro would toss out their best Camaro not even mid-way through the platform.

Just what that next Camaro is....I really don't know. I have some high hopes, but hope is not a strategy.

Just my $0.02
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Old 05-04-2018, 09:21 AM   #34
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Sorry....but I strongly disagree.

The only reason these modern day versions of the "pony car wars" exist is competition.

The ZL1 1LE was a response to the GT350R, which was a response to the Gen 5 Z/28, which was a response to the Boss 302.....etc. etc.

In my opinion the long delay in the current version of the GT500 is that the ZL1 1LE set that next bar a fair amount higher than Ford saw coming. Well....that and some of the engine problems they are having with the GT350.

This competition is driving continued leaps in performance and whether you are a Chevy or a Ford guy - this is good for all of us.

Team Camaro will have a response to the GT500. Count on it. I don't have a clue what that might be.....we can all speculate and that is fun......but another bigger/faster/stronger Camaro will be coming.

One more reason I firmly believe this is true is that it would make absolutely zero sense for the "best" (defined by performance, etc.) Gen 6 Camaro to come only three years into the Gen 6 cycle. There is a lot more runway left for the Gen 6 platform and there is no way Team Camaro would toss out their best Camaro not even mid-way through the platform.

Just what that next Camaro is....I really don't know. I have some high hopes, but hope is not a strategy.

Just my $0.02
While I agree the competition between the two forces better models I believe what Bhobbs was aluding to is once the models are set that is it.

5th Gen ZL1 debuts with 580HP and boom GT500 responds with 662. Hellcat comes out with 707. They could have put the LS9 in but they did not. They chose to just sit idle with 580.

GT has had continuous improvments to the engines since the Coyote debuted in 11 and Camaro has had 0 save for the transition to gen 6.

11-12 GT was 412HP, 13-14 was 420, 15-17 was 435 and now 18 is 460.

10 SS was 426, and so was 11, 12,13,14 and 15. 16 camaro debuted at 455 and still at 455. Now you might say that is because the others are playing catch up and that might be fair, but they are continuously trying to improve their powertrains. GM just stands pat.


Based on that history, I don't see the ZL1 getting the LT5 whenever the GT500 comes out.
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 05-04-2018, 12:35 PM   #35
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While I agree the competition between the two forces better models I believe what Bhobbs was aluding to is once the models are set that is it.

5th Gen ZL1 debuts with 580HP and boom GT500 responds with 662. Hellcat comes out with 707. They could have put the LS9 in but they did not. They chose to just sit idle with 580.

GT has had continuous improvments to the engines since the Coyote debuted in 11 and Camaro has had 0 save for the transition to gen 6.

11-12 GT was 412HP, 13-14 was 420, 15-17 was 435 and now 18 is 460.

10 SS was 426, and so was 11, 12,13,14 and 15. 16 camaro debuted at 455 and still at 455. Now you might say that is because the others are playing catch up and that might be fair, but they are continuously trying to improve their powertrains. GM just stands pat.


Based on that history, I don't see the ZL1 getting the LT5 whenever the GT500 comes out.
I somewhat disagree. Chevy chose to focus on a Z/28 with a 505 HP LS7 for model year 2014 and then the new Alpha Camaro in 2016. They didn't sit idle. The ZL1 was done and they were looking forward.

I agree with 2010REDSS point that we are three years into the Gen 6 cycle and a another bigger/faster/stronger Camaro will be coming. We just don't know what that will be but I'd bet it won't be a LT5 upgraded ZL1.

Gen5 Camaro was done on the fly. They didn't plan for the 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 from the beginning. They evolved. Al O has commented several times that in gen6, they planned all the models from the beginning so they could share components. I wouldn't be surprise to learn that there were different engines in the two ZL1s that tested at the Nurburgring.
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Old 05-04-2018, 07:29 PM   #36
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Al has been wrong before. He clearly stated that there would not be a 4 cylinder Camaro as long as he's chief engineer. Look what happened there.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:25 AM   #37
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Can you max a car out these days with n/a power? The new ZR-1 says yes you can. The bar has been raised so maybe it's time to either retire the Z28 moniker or supercharge it. OR turbo charge it......
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:43 PM   #38
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I somewhat disagree. Chevy chose to focus on a Z/28 with a 505 HP LS7 for model year 2014 and then the new Alpha Camaro in 2016. They didn't sit idle. The ZL1 was done and they were looking forward.

I agree with 2010REDSS point that we are three years into the Gen 6 cycle and a another bigger/faster/stronger Camaro will be coming. We just don't know what that will be but I'd bet it won't be a LT5 upgraded ZL1.

Gen5 Camaro was done on the fly. They didn't plan for the 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 from the beginning. They evolved. Al O has commented several times that in gen6, they planned all the models from the beginning so they could share components. I wouldn't be surprise to learn that there were different engines in the two ZL1s that tested at the Nurburgring.
the point is they had something they could have used, they CHOSE not to. They chose to just let the ZL1 sit as it was from 2012. I could see if they had nothing else up their sleeve, but they did they had the LS9. Yes they brought out a new model, but what I was saying was they don't improve on current models. The lone exception I can think of is when they updated the base SS suspension in 2012 I think? Other than that once the model debuts, its on to the next one for them.
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:50 PM   #39
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Al has been wrong before. He clearly stated that there would not be a 4 cylinder Camaro as long as he's chief engineer. Look what happened there.
He never said that.

He said he would fight for every horsepower and cylinder he could get.

People took that and said no 4 cylinder. It’s not his fault if people twist his words.
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Old 05-10-2018, 05:15 PM   #40
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It looks like there is a separation between the hood and that scoop looking thing, LT5 for sure, I think.
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Old 05-11-2018, 06:46 PM   #41
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the point is they had something they could have used, they CHOSE not to. They chose to just let the ZL1 sit as it was from 2012. I could see if they had nothing else up their sleeve, but they did they had the LS9.
They repeatedly said to leave the LS9 on he sidelines due to cost. Just look looking at crate motors, the LSA is $10k cheaper than LS9.

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The lone exception I can think of is when they updated the base SS suspension in 2012 I think?
Correct.
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:50 AM   #42
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the point is they had something they could have used, they CHOSE not to. They chose to just let the ZL1 sit as it was from 2012. I could see if they had nothing else up their sleeve, but they did they had the LS9. Yes they brought out a new model, but what I was saying was they don't improve on current models. The lone exception I can think of is when they updated the base SS suspension in 2012 I think? Other than that once the model debuts, its on to the next one for them.
I understand your point that Chevy could have done something to increase power in the gen5 ZL1. Even short of a LS9, there was a lot of potential in the LSA they didn’t tap.

My point is that Chevy Performance wasn’t idle and accomplished far more than Ford in the intervening time (below)

12 ZL1
13 1LE
14 Z/28
14 C7
15 Z06
16 SS Alpha
17 1LE
17 ZL1
18 ZL1 1LE
19 ZR1
?? Z/28
?? C8

12 Boss 302
13 GT500
15 GT S550
15 GT350
17 Ford GT.
18 GT refresh
?? GT500 (Bueller?)

Some of the same engineers work on both Corvette and Camaro. Project planning and funding have a horizon of 3 to 5 years. When the 13 GT500 arrived the plan for the 17 ZL1 was in place so was there value in gen5 ZL1 redo compared to what they did between 12 and 17?

Now consider the S550 and how little it has accomplished from 14 to 18. The SS gapped the GT by almost a full second (1/4) with chassis tuning that put it into a different league. The 18 GT has only managed to catch up and even that is questionable after the PP1 did so badly.

At introduction, the GT350 looked like a tremendous performance bargain at its starting msrp of $49.9k. That level was quickly exposed and dropped and compared to what Chevy accomplished with its $45k 1LE, the $56k non-R underperforms terribly.

Chevy performance has moved forward at a much faster pace than Ford. Period!

Sorry for late reply. Like you, been busy and this required time
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