[samjlee27]

A quick question to members with high-mileage SS owners running without catch cans, have you experienced any issues without running one? And if so, have you noticed any loss in performance?

[dotfiles]

Not a direct answer to your question but I've got about 15000 miles on my SS with a Mishimoto catch can and I've collected almost a liter of gross gas/oil mix with it. I would not want that circulating around my intake/heads. No issues with the system.

[Bad Anvil Garage]

Any dealers ever hassle you about it regarding the GM warranty?

[dfwcowboy]

I can't definitively answer your question either, but common sense tells me there would be no loss in performance. Back in the day before such systems all you had was a vent on the valve cover that allowed those gasses to escape the crank case. The reason it's recirculated today back into the intake has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with emissions.


It's also worth noting that with the advent of direct injection (which I believe all new Camaros have) vs port injection, the blow-by oil still gets inserted into the induction system, except with no benefit of detergent gasoline washing them into the cylinders.


Time will tell how much problems people will starting having with direct injection engines as more of them start accumulating high run times. Personally I have bought a catch can and am working on the install. If nothing else it will buy me a bit of piece of mind.

[Corvette_Mike]

Originally Posted by Bad Anvil Garage

Any dealers ever hassle you about it regarding the GM warranty?

My dealer says it will void my warranty if I install one.

[70chevelleSS]

Originally Posted by dotfiles

Not a direct answer to your question but I've got about 15000 miles on my SS with a Mishimoto catch can and I've collected almost a liter of gross gas/oil mix with it. I would not want that circulating around my intake/heads. No issues with the system.

Wow! a liter? My 17 SS has had a Mishimoto catch can on it since before I hit 1k miles. Now at 14.5K and I've collected MAYBE a solid 4 ounces. I've been storing it in a mason jar every time I empty it. Mine is always solid black oil, looks exactly like the used oil when you do an oil change.
Interesting.

[70chevelleSS]

Originally Posted by Bad Anvil Garage

Any dealers ever hassle you about it regarding the GM warranty?

Take it off and reinstall the factory hose between the two ports. Leaves no trace.

[cskipgo]

Does anyone know for sure if adding a catch can effects warranty?

[oilgear]

Corvettes have had this motor since 2014 I think. Any of those guys with higher mileage have issues?

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by oilgear

Corvettes have had this motor since 2014 I think. Any of those guys with higher mileage have issues?

From what I understand, there is not a ton of buildup on these engines. The Camaro has additional countermeasures on it's version of the LT1 engine for this in comparison to the Corvette. But, I don't see many issues with buildup on the 'vettes anyway.

Here is a link to a guy with a 2014 Sierra pickup with the 5.3. It's pretty clean after 117k miles. And he doesn't have the fancy oil/air separator in the valve covers like the Camaro engine does.

https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...e-also-552370/

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by cskipgo

Does anyone know for sure if adding a catch can effects warranty?

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, BUT, from what I understand, GM has to prove that your mod had something to do with the failure in question to deny a warranty claim. SO, if you upgrade to 6 piston brakes, and your engine blows up, they can't void your warranty.

A catch can is pretty benign in terms of causing a failure (assuming you empty it out before it gets too full).

But if you put a procharger on it and you blow your engine, it's on you...

Keep in mind, if you just keep the little hose that you replace with the catch can, you can just remove the can and put the hose back on, and the dealer will never know...

[Elite Engineering]

Thought we would chime in to clarify some of the LT1 and LT4 engines issues as all GDI engines have these.


First of all, GM has added a factory cleanside separator that does a good job on the second point of ingestion on these engines. But that is only addressing the 5-15% that is ingested via the fresh/clean side of the PCV system. Nothing has been done on the main pathway, the foul/dirty side. Next, there is more than just intake valve coking occuring, one of the main reasons all automakers have dropped engine warranty periods to appx 1/2 of the older port injection engines these replace (and to clarify, the industry was forced to adopt GDI technology with it far from perfected).


Intake valve coking is as bad as most any GDI engine, and here is an example of the power lost and regained at just 20k miles:





And what the valves looked like at just 5k miles:





But that is only one of the issues GDI engines have to deal with. Power loss is gradual, so most will never notice. It is after a cleaning that the re-gained power is noticeable. That's why we do dyno runs before and after on different engines at different miles accumulated.


The other issues, and these are easily avoidable by taking steps to prevent them. First, do NOT leave that factory fill oil in longer than 500 miles!!!! Ignore the dealer. There is NO engine in the World that will not suffer premature wear leaving that metal and debris filled oil in past the 500 miles proper break-in period. Get it and the filter changed after you have properly seated the rings. GM has since revised the Z06 and ZL1 to do just this after so many engine failures. They do not for the SS because of the added cost, but it is ANY engine.


How do you properly seat rings? Not by babying the engine when new, that will give you a chance at proper ring seating, but that is a gamble. Get it wrong and your engine will consume oil. How do you ensure proper ring seating and break in? After determining there are no fluid leaks, or unusual noises, and the engine has at least 50-100 miles on it and heat cycled a few times (brought to operating temp and allowed to cool down), on a backroad with no traffic in second gear from say 20-25 MPH, full throttle up to 5k RPM's and allow the car to engine brake back down to the 20-25 MPH. Repeat 4-6 times and your rings will be proper seated by loading them through both acceleration and deceleration. As these engines have "low tension" piston rings to improve fuel economy, this is critical. Why? The engine when assembled has an abrasive cross hatch hone pattern that abrades the rings into the shape of the cylinder walls for proper seal. If you go past the 500 or so miles without the proper amount of wear in, a hard glaze sets in covering the cross hatch and this short window will have passed. The likelihood of further seating after this is slim, unless under very hard running.


Now, the oil to use. Even though GM several years ago discovered (what we have been sharing for years here and on Camaro5) is that the cheap Dexos syn blend oils were no where near what was needed to protect these engines, where with port injection engines it was perfectly fine. Why? Well there are several reasons. The main one, which is causing so many engine failures in the past with the V6, and now the V8 GDI engines is only a good full synthetic has the ability to offer the protection needed as GDI engines experience many times the amount of combustion byproducts and other contaminants entering the crankcase compared to the port injection engines of the past. What are these? Water is the greatest as far as volume, then raw fuel (GDI engines introduce the fuel directly into the combustion chamber at 2,000-3,000 PSI vs the 45-55 PSI of port fuel injection) is the second highest. This overloads the engine oils ability to protect. Combine this with the far to thin of viscosity oils that the automaker specifies in order to meet CAFE fuel economy standards, and you have the deck stacked against you from the start. (Again note we have shared this for years and GM just recently changed what they recommend when you track a car or operate in severe conditions. Mobile 1 15w50 meets all the needs as does Amsoil 5w50 Signature series. This prevents much of the premature wear all GDI engines experience. And then these two oils are the only ones we are aware of that have the formulation that prevents LSPI damage. a 0w20 is so thin it could only protect if there was little fuel dilution at all. and I know, many send in oil samples to Blackstone or similar, and we applaud and encourage this, but fuel dilution will only be accurate if the sample is drawn immediately at shutdown and preferably through the dipstick tube. ANY exposure when that oil is hot to the atmosphere as most samples are captured when draining oil, much of the fuel will flash off and not be an accurate sample. Fuel is really the only contaminant to not be accurate.


Then we have abrasive particulate matter. This is mainly soot, ash, and carbon particles. ALL are abrasive, and much is smaller than the 10-12 microns the average oil filter traps down to, so they continue to circulate with the oil causing premature wear. The 3.6L V6 is a perfect example to look back on. An amazing engine with remarkable engineering and design but oil consumption issues from improper ring seating and the amount of contamination overwhelming the cheap syn blend oils allowing timing chain and bearing wear. The LT based V8's are no different in this regard.


Next, how do you take additional steps to protect? Our E2-X Catchcan systems for GDI engines trap approximately 95% of all of these contaminants before they have a chance to settle and mix with the oil and accumulate in the crankcase and engine oil. It converts the PCV system to full time evacuation so these are constantly flushed and removed no matter the driving mode. As these are stock, the crankcase is evacuated only at idle, light cruise, and deceleration. During acceleration and WOT is when these contaminants are not flushed and removed and quickly mix with the oil and accumulate in the crankcase.


ONLY run a premium full synthetic, and NOT the super thin viscosity oils the owners manual and non informed dealers tell you. There is no reason not to run 10k miles on an oil change if our system is installed to prevent the rapid contamination of the oil.


Top tier fuel. ALL fuels have minimum detergent additives, and Top Tier adds more in addition to what is required by law. And in the past as fuel made contact with your valves to cool and clean them, no fuel touches the backsides of the intake valves any longer. So there is NOTHING these fuels benefit aside from fuel injectors stay clean longer. You do NOT want to add additional fuel additives to the tank if already running only top tier fuels any more often than say every 10k or so miles. A little may be good, alot will damage the injectors internally.


Consider removing your intake manifold and examine your valves up close. Any oil not 100% synthetic will leave greater coking deposits than pure synthetic.


NEVER use an engine running solvent based cleaner, no matter WHAT the dealer claims. This is a high profit margin service, but will cause damage to the pistons and more in every case when ingested while the engine is running. These are perfectly safe on the older engines, but the hard baked on abrasive crystalline form of the coking deposits is like sand and can only be safely cleaned manually. And then these solvents are used to soak and soften the deposits so they can be more easily removed manually.


As for warranty, a dealer can do as they choose, but it is against Federal law to void a warranty for any aftermarket product or service unless the dealer can prove it was the direct cause of the failure in question. Our systems ALL meet every emission requirement except in the State of CA due to the CARB cert process. And in no way can cause any damage or failure period, just the opposite. BUT the defense and complaint process must be done by you the victim (the FTC has guides and assistance in this as well as several Mag/Moss specialty law firms) to get results. Don't be bullied.


Questions? Just ask. This is an entire new era in caring for your vehicle to get the most trouble free life out of it. Gine are the days of most engines going 100-200k miles with little care.

[Akura]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Thought we would chime in to clarify some of the LT1 and LT4 engines issues as all GDI engines have these.


First of all, GM has added a factory cleanside separator that does a good job on the second point of ingestion on these engines. But that is only addressing the 5-15% that is ingested via the fresh/clean side of the PCV system. Nothing has been done on the main pathway, the foul/dirty side. Next, there is more than just intake valve coking occuring, one of the main reasons all automakers have dropped engine warranty periods to appx 1/2 of the older port injection engines these replace (and to clarify, the industry was forced to adopt GDI technology with it far from perfected).


Intake valve coking is as bad as most any GDI engine, and here is an example of the power lost and regained at just 20k miles:





And what the valves looked like at just 5k miles:





But that is only one of the issues GDI engines have to deal with. Power loss is gradual, so most will never notice. It is after a cleaning that the re-gained power is noticeable. That's why we do dyno runs before and after on different engines at different miles accumulated.


The other issues, and these are easily avoidable by taking steps to prevent them. First, do NOT leave that factory fill oil in longer than 500 miles!!!! Ignore the dealer. There is NO engine in the World that will not suffer premature wear leaving that metal and debris filled oil in past the 500 miles proper break-in period. Get it and the filter changed after you have properly seated the rings. GM has since revised the Z06 and ZL1 to do just this after so many engine failures. They do not for the SS because of the added cost, but it is ANY engine.


How do you properly seat rings? Not by babying the engine when new, that will give you a chance at proper ring seating, but that is a gamble. Get it wrong and your engine will consume oil. How do you ensure proper ring seating and break in? After determining there are no fluid leaks, or unusual noises, and the engine has at least 50-100 miles on it and heat cycled a few times (brought to operating temp and allowed to cool down), on a backroad with no traffic in second gear from say 20-25 MPH, full throttle up to 5k RPM's and allow the car to engine brake back down to the 20-25 MPH. Repeat 4-6 times and your rings will be proper seated by loading them through both acceleration and deceleration. As these engines have "low tension" piston rings to improve fuel economy, this is critical. Why? The engine when assembled has an abrasive cross hatch hone pattern that abrades the rings into the shape of the cylinder walls for proper seal. If you go past the 500 or so miles without the proper amount of wear in, a hard glaze sets in covering the cross hatch and this short window will have passed. The likelihood of further seating after this is slim, unless under very hard running.


Now, the oil to use. Even though GM several years ago discovered (what we have been sharing for years here and on Camaro5) is that the cheap Dexos syn blend oils were no where near what was needed to protect these engines, where with port injection engines it was perfectly fine. Why? Well there are several reasons. The main one, which is causing so many engine failures in the past with the V6, and now the V8 GDI engines is only a good full synthetic has the ability to offer the protection needed as GDI engines experience many times the amount of combustion byproducts and other contaminants entering the crankcase compared to the port injection engines of the past. What are these? Water is the greatest as far as volume, then raw fuel (GDI engines introduce the fuel directly into the combustion chamber at 2,000-3,000 PSI vs the 45-55 PSI of port fuel injection) is the second highest. This overloads the engine oils ability to protect. Combine this with the far to thin of viscosity oils that the automaker specifies in order to meet CAFE fuel economy standards, and you have the deck stacked against you from the start. (Again note we have shared this for years and GM just recently changed what they recommend when you track a car or operate in severe conditions. Mobile 1 15w50 meets all the needs as does Amsoil 5w50 Signature series. This prevents much of the premature wear all GDI engines experience. And then these two oils are the only ones we are aware of that have the formulation that prevents LSPI damage. a 0w20 is so thin it could only protect if there was little fuel dilution at all. and I know, many send in oil samples to Blackstone or similar, and we applaud and encourage this, but fuel dilution will only be accurate if the sample is drawn immediately at shutdown and preferably through the dipstick tube. ANY exposure when that oil is hot to the atmosphere as most samples are captured when draining oil, much of the fuel will flash off and not be an accurate sample. Fuel is really the only contaminant to not be accurate.


Then we have abrasive particulate matter. This is mainly soot, ash, and carbon particles. ALL are abrasive, and much is smaller than the 10-12 microns the average oil filter traps down to, so they continue to circulate with the oil causing premature wear. The 3.6L V6 is a perfect example to look back on. An amazing engine with remarkable engineering and design but oil consumption issues from improper ring seating and the amount of contamination overwhelming the cheap syn blend oils allowing timing chain and bearing wear. The LT based V8's are no different in this regard.


Next, how do you take additional steps to protect? Our E2-X Catchcan systems for GDI engines trap approximately 95% of all of these contaminants before they have a chance to settle and mix with the oil and accumulate in the crankcase and engine oil. It converts the PCV system to full time evacuation so these are constantly flushed and removed no matter the driving mode. As these are stock, the crankcase is evacuated only at idle, light cruise, and deceleration. During acceleration and WOT is when these contaminants are not flushed and removed and quickly mix with the oil and accumulate in the crankcase.


ONLY run a premium full synthetic, and NOT the super thin viscosity oils the owners manual and non informed dealers tell you. There is no reason not to run 10k miles on an oil change if our system is installed to prevent the rapid contamination of the oil.


Top tier fuel. ALL fuels have minimum detergent additives, and Top Tier adds more in addition to what is required by law. And in the past as fuel made contact with your valves to cool and clean them, no fuel touches the backsides of the intake valves any longer. So there is NOTHING these fuels benefit aside from fuel injectors stay clean longer. You do NOT want to add additional fuel additives to the tank if already running only top tier fuels any more often than say every 10k or so miles. A little may be good, alot will damage the injectors internally.


Consider removing your intake manifold and examine your valves up close. Any oil not 100% synthetic will leave greater coking deposits than pure synthetic.


NEVER use an engine running solvent based cleaner, no matter WHAT the dealer claims. This is a high profit margin service, but will cause damage to the pistons and more in every case when ingested while the engine is running. These are perfectly safe on the older engines, but the hard baked on abrasive crystalline form of the coking deposits is like sand and can only be safely cleaned manually. And then these solvents are used to soak and soften the deposits so they can be more easily removed manually.


As for warranty, a dealer can do as they choose, but it is against Federal law to void a warranty for any aftermarket product or service unless the dealer can prove it was the direct cause of the failure in question. Our systems ALL meet every emission requirement except in the State of CA due to the CARB cert process. And in no way can cause any damage or failure period, just the opposite. BUT the defense and complaint process must be done by you the victim (the FTC has guides and assistance in this as well as several Mag/Moss specialty law firms) to get results. Don't be bullied.


Questions? Just ask. This is an entire new era in caring for your vehicle to get the most trouble free life out of it. Gine are the days of most engines going 100-200k miles with little care.

So, what do you think about the new 0w40 Mobil1 oil recommended by GM?

[hotlap]

I had a Mishimoto catch can but took it off because it was collecting water during cold temperatures and filling dangerously full in less than a week. The risk of it causing damage due to inhibited exhaust gas recirculation was greater than any perceived benefit.

FYI - I had the dealer do a "top end clean" at ~15k miles. Like a Seafoam thing. No issue. Preventive maintenance.