[Eldi Z]

Originally Posted by Turbo_RORO

I wouldn't say that it proves anything. I have not weighed them, nor have you, and no one has stated any numbers that "prove" anything. Lets stay on track. I am again still saying I don't know the numbers, but neither does anyone else (or at least they have not posted them). I would like to know what the factory balance is. I know for a FACT that the ring gaps were not acceptable at all. Gaps were (top ring) .015-.02 off max spread. That's pretty bad.

Cool. I am with you.
Would still be nice to know about a "Drop In" combo which truly has the same balance as the OE parts.
If CP / CMS or Wiseco / Vengence could chime in and provide some official data, it might help the community on their decisions and the route to take when replacing these parts.
Take out the motor and have it balanced, or leave it in the bay and simply drop in the pistons/rods, knowing they are within Bob weight spec.

[ShizzySupra]

Guess I am confused. I just stated mine didnt need to be balanced? The community decisions has spoken... lots of people using them without being balanced and they are running fine. Vengeance had a ton of people using the drop in piston only setup in Corvettes.

This is a dead horse thats been buried, mourned, and widow was re-married.

Originally Posted by Eldi Z

Cool. I am with you.
Would still be nice to know about a "Drop In" combo which truly has the same balance as the OE parts.
If CP / CMS or Wiseco / Vengence could chime in and provide some official data, it might help the community on their decisions and the route to take when replacing these parts.
Take out the motor and have it balanced, or leave it in the bay and simply drop in the pistons/rods, knowing they are within Bob weight spec.

[Eldi Z]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

Guess I am confused. I just stated mine didnt need to be balanced? The community decisions has spoken... lots of people using them without being balanced and they are running fine. Vengeance had a ton of people using the drop in piston only setup in Corvettes.

This is a dead horse thats been buried, mourned, and widow was re-married.

OK. Let it be.
Still, fact that many people had success without blowing motors (so far, in 12-15 months of service? not 36 months+...) with I.E. Wiseco / Vengence "Drop In" Pistons, does not mean that they are the same weight as the stock ones - not requiring the motor to be balanced for many trouble free years of engine duty.

[kttxz06]

Well, this could save me a ton of coin, so don't throw water in my face.


As some know, I'm now at the 1117 hp mark on 116. 1044 on 93 pump. I'm looking to pull the motor and upgrade the connecting rods and pistons. End goal, around 1350 on boost only, then if we feel up to it, a 100 or 200 shot to hit that 1600 hp mark. I'm assuming in this situation, a drop in piston would NOT be the way to go, but if I can get away with hitting my 1300 mark on boost only with some drop ins, I'd look that direction. Now, obviously, that doesn't solve the connecting rod issue as I'm assuming there is no way to replace those without pulling the motor correct? Cus if I pull the motor, we are just gonna machine and hone everything and do everything custom. That's a $8k job. So, if I can eek out a few more HP with some drop ins and keep it safe, I'd like to go that route next if possible. Yes, no?

[tireslayer0331]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Well, this could save me a ton of coin, so don't throw water in my face.


As some know, I'm now at the 1117 hp mark on 116. 1044 on 93 pump. I'm looking to pull the motor and upgrade the connecting rods and pistons. End goal, around 1350 on boost only, then if we feel up to it, a 100 or 200 shot to hit that 1600 hp mark. I'm assuming in this situation, a drop in piston would NOT be the way to go, but if I can get away with hitting my 1300 mark on boost only with some drop ins, I'd look that direction. Now, obviously, that doesn't solve the connecting rod issue as I'm assuming there is no way to replace those without pulling the motor correct? Cus if I pull the motor, we are just gonna machine and hone everything and do everything custom. That's a $8k job. So, if I can eek out a few more HP with some drop ins and keep it safe, I'd like to go that route next if possible. Yes, no?

There should be just as much work involved in replacing the rods as there is to replace the pistons. To replace the pistons only the rods would have to come out regardless.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by tireslayer0331

There should be just as much work involved in replacing the rods as there is to replace the pistons. To replace the pistons only the rods would have to come out regardless.

True, but at the levels of HP I'm wanting to acheive, I'd assume you'd want a balanced and honed block instead of just drop in stuff. But, I figured in this day and age, they would make drop in replacements to where you can run 1300 hp safely.



I will still most likely do the whole block as that is the safest, but would be nice if there were less expensive alternatives. But, then my builder will be like, why would you want to skimp out at your power levels and where your goals are? And I get that too.



I do care about reliability at 1300-1500 hp so. I just always thought you could achieve that on a stock block without pulling the motor and getting it spec'd right.

[ShizzySupra]

Scott I would highly recommend you do a full build and even consider going bigger displacement. You can trade in your LT4 as a core to LME. You are already spinning your blower HARD and you want to spray on top. Cylinder pressures will be high. At the level you are aiming for “budget” shouldnt ever be used. Plus you might want custom ring gapping for the boost/nitrous tolerances.

Originally Posted by kttxz06

True, but at the levels of HP I'm wanting to acheive, I'd assume you'd want a balanced and honed block instead of just drop in stuff. But, I figured in this day and age, they would make drop in replacements to where you can run 1300 hp safely.



I will still most likely do the whole block as that is the safest, but would be nice if there were less expensive alternatives. But, then my builder will be like, why would you want to skimp out at your power levels and where your goals are? And I get that too.



I do care about reliability at 1300-1500 hp so. I just always thought you could achieve that on a stock block without pulling the motor and getting it spec'd right.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

Scott I would highly recommend you do a full build and even consider going bigger displacement. You can trade in your LT4 as a core to LME. You are already spinning your blower HARD and you want to spray on top. Cylinder pressures will be high. At the level you are aiming for “budget” shouldnt ever be used. Plus you might want custom ring gapping for the boost/nitrous tolerances.

That's the plan. Going 416. But, it doesn't hurt to look at other alternatives. I've gone this far, what is another $8500? lol. If we do pull the motor, LME will doing everything custom for my needs so. We are basically gonna say, we need to hold 1350 on boost. 1600 tops on spray. We are keeping stock crank shaft tho. I have my receipt somewhere...........let me see what is all included.

[ShizzySupra]

Just shocked the F1A-94 can make 1300whp through the auto

Originally Posted by kttxz06

That's the plan. Going 416. But, it doesn't hurt to look at other alternatives. I've gone this far, what is another $8500? lol. If we do pull the motor, LME will doing everything custom for my needs so. We are basically gonna say, we need to hold 1350 on boost. 1600 tops on spray. We are keeping stock crank shaft tho. I have my receipt somewhere...........let me see what is all included.

[kttxz06]

Okay, got my build sheet...........


LME Built 416 Shortblock, Reusing Block + Crankshaft.


Wiseco/LME lt4 416" FI Custom Forged Pistons/w upgraded heavy wall (.200") Tool steel wrist pins: Includes Stainless Chrome top ring, napier 2nd, 3mm oil rings. Callies Billit Ultra H Beam Rods. ARP Main Stud Kit (which I already have).


Balance, Blueprint, and assemble shortblock. Fully deburr block, line hone block w/ARP main studs, deck block to desired deck height w/BHJ deck true fixture, bore block on 4 axis CNC. Diamond hone block w/torque plates. Balance crankshaft to 1/4 ox in tolerance. hang pistons on rods. check all bearing clearances, file fite rings, assemble shortblock.



$5400 for that. Then $2400 labor to put it all back into my car.



There are another $560 in parts that I am going to add as well, so that puts me at $8850 for this build.


Sound like a decent deal to me. LME tells me at this build I should be able to run full kill on boost and easily do a 200 shot, all the way to a 400 shot on a progressive set up, but 200 is fine with me on the streets. I might just go 100 shot to get rid of the boost build up. I haven't made up my mind yet. Matt wants to run a sep fuel cell, so that's another $3k on a Nitrous Outlet plate system with all the safety built in plus install. So, all in, it will be around $12k. smh. Shit never stops man. haha.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

Just shocked the F1A-94 can make 1300whp through the auto

Well, we are basically maxed out right now at 1117 so. Stock block. Plus, we are going to do a trans tune so I can rev it out to 7250. If we go full kill on the blower, I think we can hit 1300 easy actually. Depending on air, but if I do this build, it will be on Oct so we should have perfect temps to get that done.



Believe it or not, I lost a pound of boost on 116 than I did on pump. We were at 24.2 on pump. 23 on 116. But, I think Matt took timing out for now to keep it safe until we build the block. Didn't want to push it.



And this was with what we now found out with clogged exhaust so. (We blew the left side cat out and it was blocking my exhaust at the Corsa muffler where it exits). I think once we run an X pipe on there, we'll pick up another 20-30 hp without tuning.

[kttxz06]

Just spoke to Matt as he had to come by the house and get rid of my surge issues. He thinks we can go 427 instead of 416 and keep the price in the same ball park and run boost only instead of running Nitrous.


I want nitrous, but I don't due to the hassles. But I also know in reality, on the streets, I need to be around 1250 min to the wheels to play ball with the big boys. And I'm not talking Tx2k time cus that's just crazy ass numbers to put down on the streets. But, for the street scene here, I'm talking strictly Camaro's. I need 1250 to run the show to be top dog. Anything in the 1300 hp range and I can basically claim the streets. Which is my goal. Now obviously, I can't run with 3200 lb C6's running F1X's, but you get the idea. For a Camaro, I think 1300ish should be about top mark. Unfortunately, I'll never be able to shave off 700lbs to run with the Supras. haha. And I can't imagine putting down 1300 hp with a light ass car. Would scare the hell out of me.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

That's the plan. Going 416. But, it doesn't hurt to look at other alternatives. I've gone this far, what is another $8500? lol. If we do pull the motor, LME will doing everything custom for my needs so. We are basically gonna say, we need to hold 1350 on boost. 1600 tops on spray. We are keeping stock crank shaft tho. I have my receipt somewhere...........let me see what is all included.

When I look at Texas Speed's 416, the trade in for a working LT1 short block was $500.00

[markblackwell]

I worked with Ryne over at CMS to come up with what will be my new set up F1A-94 were gonna make some boost and hopefully go well over the 1,000whp mark. Should be up and running within the next month.