[CCS71]

I am a reformed riceburner queen. There was a time when I thought American cars were inferior in reliability. Now...I'm over my 1988 Nissan, 1992 Toyota, 1993 Lexus, and 1998 Acura. My Camaro kicks all their butts. Bottom line is, when you find a car that gives you that one-of-a-kind feeling of euphoria, you just know it's your soul mate on wheels. In that respect, bailout money doesn't matter. I like what I like, period. When people start trashtalking about another person's choice, deep down they are not completely at peace with their own choices. Their problem, not mine.

[Angrybird 12]

Why all the hate????

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Kgarner1624

Out of the numerous mustang owners i have encountered, i have only met a few (not exaggerating at all) that have shown respect for my car after i compliment theirs… You won't find anyone on this planet that despises mustangs and ford more than me, but i respect them and am not afraid to tell them how nice their ride is. The corvette people aren't too great either, challengers are not so good but mustang drivers definitely take the cake for being the snobbiest and most disrespectful people I've come across.

I have a couple friends that own mustangs and they fit that bill perfectly… Camaro owners have always been generous and respectful people, even before i owned one i was able to stop and talk with them for however long without them getting agitated ect….

And I can say the same about my encounters with Camaro owners (especially F-body LS1 cars, I swear those guys think god himself assembled that engine lol) coolest car people I meet is at the track, that is where I have always made good conversation with anyone, any car.

I think we can all agree, that BMW owners are the worst hahah!

[2011shelby]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

. The Mustang GT 500 seemed like a response to the ZL1, !

I believe you have this backwards, The GT500 came out in 2007, The ZL1 came out in 2012. 5years later.

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Frankly, business has nothing to do with racing. If executives make choices that don't work out, it has nothing to do with the engineering behind a car. That's up to engineers, not board room suits.

People really like to compare auto enthusiasm to religion, sports teams, or other areas where we accept and encourage diversity. I have a lot of appreciation for car enthusiasts everywhere and personally have a taste for non-GM vehicles as well.

On the other hand, cars are a lot more than design. Fancy bodywork does not make a car. It might make a brand recognizable, like a 1972 Chevelle or a 2011 Camaro, but it does not constitute the whole car. There's a lot of engineering there.

While we're tolerating the diversity of design and personal taste in said design, let's also look at cars objectively. They require brilliant minds to give them breath, and some of them are objectively better than others. This can be measured in the kinds of problems we have with our cars.

Since all vehicles are matters of production, those issues vary from low-grade parts (excessive use of plastics, for instance) to unskilled builders producing low-quality clearances (garage projects, for instance). Bodystyles will remain in debate for all time, but engineering is much easier to argue. For a motor company, there are a lot of engineering questions to ask, but one stands out more than any other.

Who makes the best engines? That answer is obvious to all of us, but let a Ford guy tell you, "It depends on what you want to do." At General Motors, the best engines for racing, hauling, off-road, road courses, circle tracks, rally, tinkering, self-assembly, and even watersport are available at your GM parts dealer or in your favorite GM vehicle. With these engines, you'll have more power, less maintenance, and significantly lower cost over the life of the engine than comparable imports and domestics. It's really a no-brainer.

On top of that, we can discuss the best suspensions, but the same argument will be met. "It depends on what you want to do." I'm sure someone will tell me the Range Rover or G-wagon can outdo a Suburban on dirt. When you get price into the equation, once again GM is going to dominate among OEMs. When comparing products in the same price range and category, GM products tend to out-handle comparable imports and domestics on the same track. Show me a professional driver losing to a Challenger or Mustang when driving a 1LE, ZL1, or Z/28.

I could go on, but I've made my point. Come at me, trolls.

I'll gladly admit, Chevy makes some great engines, only problem I have with Chevy is all the rest of the vehicle parts are crap. (not talking about looks) I've had more problems with stuff breaking on my Chevy vehicles than any other brand I've ever owned.
Parts like:
Air shocks leaking(also motor for shocks)
cup holder
handle for lift gate
peeling leather console.
etc.

[revychevy]

As for the bailout comments, when GM and Chrysler got bailouts Ford and BMW and Fiskar and Toyota got sweetheart low interest loans from Uncle Sam.

http://jalopnik.com/5704575/ford-bmw...vernment-money

[Muscle Car Memories]

Why didnt AMC, Studebaker, Hudson, Kaiser and many others get a bailout?

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by 2011shelby

I believe you have this backwards, The GT500 came out in 2007, The ZL1 came out in 2012. 5years later.


I'll gladly admit, Chevy makes some great engines, only problem I have with Chevy is all the rest of the vehicle parts are crap. (not talking about looks) I've had more problems with stuff breaking on my Chevy vehicles than any other brand I've ever owned.
Parts like:
Air shocks leaking(also motor for shocks)
cup holder
handle for lift gate
peeling leather console.
etc.

Haven't your banned friends at the Ford forum told you about "setting the record straight about the Mustang" and how that works on a Chevrolet forum?

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Muscle Car Memories

Why didnt AMC, Studebaker, Hudson, Kaiser and many others get a bailout?

Chrysler has been bailed out twice now...

[Dwarfey]

Think of Ford, Chryslers, and Chevy as three brothers who fight, argue, and overall dick around. Then you get some Japanese kid, lets call him Honda, picking on Dodge, then all the brothers gang up and beat the crap out of him.

TBH I did have a CRZ, it was great, but the lack of power killed me

[Muscle Car Memories]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Haven't your banned friends at the Ford forum told you about "setting the record straight about the Mustang" and how that works on a Chevrolet forum?

All brands have problems, Toyota supposedly the most reliable car in the world is the recall king by far.

He didnt say anything that wasnt true, the Shelby was out quite a few years before the ZL1....and the ZL1 was Chevy's answer to the Shelby.

[Muscle Car Memories]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Chrysler has been bailed out twice now...

Yep I remember the 1st time and now the 2nd, three strikes and your out I suppose.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Muscle Car Memories

All brands have problems, Toyota supposedly the most reliable car in the world is the recall king by far.

He didnt say anything that wasnt true, the Shelby was out quite a few years before the ZL1....and the ZL1 was Chevy's answer to the Shelby.

I know. He's in the clear for now. It's just strange seeing a Shelby guy on a Camaro forum. Something tells me he's not here to share our passion.

[Muscle Car Memories]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I know. He's in the clear for now. It's just strange seeing a Shelby guy on a Camaro forum. Something tells me he's not here to share our passion.

LOL....Your possibly right but alot of times they wanna read up and see what the competition is doing...so basically he is a spy

[Sales @ CAI Inc]

I buy a vehicle because I like it and it fills a need or want, for whatever reason(s) that may be. My dad works and will retire from GM and my Grandfather retired from Cadillac, so I have always had more GM built vehicles, but I've also owned and enjoyed many others. Do I typically prefer GM cars/trucks, in a lot of cases yes, probably also due to the fact that they are what I am most familiar with.

To me, unless your working for a company and not wanting to bite the hand that feeds you (which I completely understand), I think 100% brand loyalty where you can not buy or admit that any other vehicle is nice is kind of silly, after all we are talking about corporations here that are ran by human beings, and many of those human beings have hopped around from manufacturer to manufacturer. Its not uncommon at all for engineers and Exec's to work for multiple manufacturers over a period of time, so in the end its just a group of people putting out a product. Its not as if buying a GM always = outcome A, and buying a Ford always = outcome B, things are constantly changing and advancing in the automotive world, and sometimes they even step backwards in terms of quality or design. So might the current Camaro be better than the current Mustang, or the current F150 better than the current Silverado, maybe, but I think its pretty ignorant to generalize one car manufacturer better than another across the board for everything, and that's where "fanboys" can get annoying.

That's just my 2 cents, probably only worth 1 though

- Bill