[Move_Over]

Originally Posted by srcstc

WOW is right. Some of the comments on this forum never cease to amaze me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Right? I've never been on a forum like this, from people asking what gear they should be in, to them asking how to drive their car home from another state...its comical. Hopefully this forum will transition to useful information full of DIY's and troubleshooting like my old bimmer and truck forums.

[s346k]

it’s no secret that engines (especially direct injected) don’t like being lugged around. it’s also no secret that these engines endured hundreds of hours in r&d at high rpm. it would behoove you low speed 6th gear offenders to buy stock in walnut shells.

*sent from my iphone while driving home from work at interstate speeds in 3rd gear

[nate.the.great]

Originally Posted by s346k

it’s no secret that engines (especially direct injected) don’t like being lugged around. it’s also no secret that these engines endured hundreds of hours in r&d at high rpm. it would behoove you low speed 6th gear offenders to buy stock in walnut shells.

*sent from my iphone while driving home from work at interstate speeds in 3rd gear

+1, i'd rather stay in a lower gear, burn some extra gas than lug the engine.

[VinnAY]

There's always that segment that insists on being in the highest gear as quick as they can, as long as it's running and going down the street, they think it's fine. Too, you get the same crowd that whines about drone and then report it's in 6th @ 45mph and pulling 1500 RPM...never occurs to them, at all, that it's the wrong gear for the conditions and that they need to downshift, at least 2 gears in that example.

I find no reason to even hit 6th unless I'm cruising at over 70 and even then I don't like how the car feels in that RPM range.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by s346k

it’s no secret that engines (especially direct injected) don’t like being lugged around. it’s also no secret that these engines endured hundreds of hours in r&d at high rpm. it would behoove you low speed 6th gear offenders to buy stock in walnut shells.

*sent from my iphone while driving home from work at interstate speeds in 3rd gear

DI engines are especially resistant to LSPI due to the greatly improved chemical quench and control of injection timing.

The LT1 was developed across it's entire RPM band, not just "high" RPM.


I have yet to see any post where someone is claiming they drive under 1k RPM in 6th. Wherever you're seeing these "offenders", please source it. Otherwise you're just fabricating sensational nonsense.

[MATTY-1LE]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Wow. 6th works just fine people. I guess if you want you can buzz along at 3000rpm like in my old wrx, but wow...

Originally Posted by srcstc

WOW is right. Some of the comments on this forum never cease to amaze me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No buzzing gentle sirs. We are just stating (at least i was), that don't be afraid to use 5th to do what you gotta do. I always slap it in 6th once i get to desired lane. I noticed people on the other thread saying they put it into 6th at 45-55 which in my opinion is too early. A lot of us may be developing driving patterns that are wrong, whilst not being able to be influenced by anyone. So this is the thread to do just that,

[MATTY-1LE]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

DI engines are especially resistant to LSPI due to the greatly improved chemical quench and control of injection timing.

The LT1 was developed across it's entire RPM band, not just "high" RPM.


I have yet to see any post where someone is claiming they drive under 1k RPM in 6th. Wherever you're seeing these "offenders", please source it. Otherwise you're just fabricating sensational nonsense.

I think the word "lug" is highly subjective. You may think 1k-1.2k is not lugging, but to others it may be. I personally stay out of that rang. Although possible to stay there, it doesnt feel right to me (another subjective statement). I also speed alot so im never doing anything below 65 so i wont be in that range even if i wanted

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by MATTY-1LE

I think the word "lug" is highly subjective. You may think 1k-1.2k is not lugging, but to others it may be...

That is precisely why I posted the SAE graph. It proves that 1,000 RPM is not lugging. It's not up for debate. Nobody's opinion matters. It's not subjective. The data is right there.

If someone wants to claim that 1000 RPM on the Gen V LT1 is "lugging", they are being willfully ignorant and should be excluded from any conversation.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

I don't lug the engine and usually shift around 2k if I don't need to accelerate faster, but if need be or I want to, I hold the gears much longer.

If I'm going slow I still don't get in 6th until I'm at 50mph, don't care if it's technically not lugging to be in 6th at 45mph, it still feels weird with too many vibrations and droning. On an on ramp that could be 60-80mph depending on how long it takes me to get to the lane I want to cruise at anywhere from 70-85 mph.

However I don't get the people who feel 65-70 is not enough for 6th gear. Usually anything over 55mph feels smooth and fine in 6th gear, and at 70mph it'll pull just fine in 6th to pass someone. Obviously if you have to aggressively pass then 5th or lower is more appropriate.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

...don't care if it's technically not lugging to be in 6th at 45mph, it still feels weird with too many vibrations and droning....Obviously if you have to aggressively pass then 5th or lower is more appropriate.

NVH is a different topic from "lugging", just so we're clear. NVH is "I feel or hear things", and "lugging" is probably best defined as LPSI and/or insufficient oiling. Driving the car how you "feel is best or most fun" isn't the same as what the engine is capable of or developed for. I'm seeing a lot of other people unable or unwilling to make that distinction.

[zx9rmal]

A few points from my perspective.

<<Dont be afraid of 5th gear usage. This is afterall a gear that probably redlines at like 160 or more.>> 6th gear is around 28 mph/1k rpm's, so at redine it's around 182.

If that dyno chart is similar to our Gen6's, we can see why the LT1 is such a great motor. 80% of max torque from 2k rpm to redline.

<<I think the word "lug" is highly subjective.>>
<<That is precisely why I posted the SAE graph. It proves that 1,000 RPM is not lugging. It's not up for debate. Nobody's opinion matters. It's not subjective. The data is right there.

If someone wants to claim that 1000 RPM on the Gen V LT1 is "lugging", they are being willfully ignorant and should be excluded from any conversation.>>

To me, it's not subjective. Lugging is lugging. And yes, it's not up for debate. Just because the motor has torque at 1k rpm, that's meaningless. 2nd gear at 1k rpm, sure. 6th gear at 1k rpm? That's the ultimate in lugging an engine. I won't address the name calling.

I'd like to see a well respected engine builder weigh in on this.

[1LE Red Dragon]

A couple of thoughts here.

If I am not mistaken the PCM will not allow 100% throttle below a certain RPM (2500 RPM, from memory). So unless you are tuned you will not make full torque capable.

For highest MPG, you need to model your manual trans shiftpoint based on the same characteristics of an automatic transmission. The autos try to obtain maximum MPG, based on the torque required. You will see the autos shift very low in the RPM range. The manual also has a skip gear from 1st to 4th gear up to 29 mph. So you can see what RPM you are running at 29 mph, and that should tell you about how much you can lug the engine (RPM wise).

Both 5th gear and 6th gear are overdrive by ratio, if I am not mistaken, so you can use 5th as an overdrive gear, and cruise in 5th gear. Your throttle will be more jumpy and you will use more gas, IF that is something that sounds logical to you. Or you can choose to move up to 6th gear, to minimize frictional loses, and maximize engine longevity. Keep in mind, you wear an engine by RPM and load. So if the load is the same and RPM is higher you have more wear, and more friction, so more gas is needed to overcome those.

My ZL1 1LE pulls so hard at low RPM in 6th gear, I have to check to make sure I am not in 4th gear. So I use 6th gear alot. From a 6th gear roll, I would outrun most cars from 2000 RPM.

As for me, I like to spend as little on gas as I can when I am not WOT, so I guess by your definitions I lug the engine some. But my 6th gear is lower in the ZLE that the normal ZL1 6 speed trans.

My $.02

[HoCoCamaro]

This has to be a troll thread...
if you've been driving stick for bit and can't judge whether or not you're lugging the engine maybe you should switch to an auto....just saying >_>

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by zx9rmal

...To me, it's not subjective. Lugging is lugging. And yes, it's not up for debate. Just because the motor has torque at 1k rpm, that's meaningless. 2nd gear at 1k rpm, sure. 6th gear at 1k rpm? That's the ultimate in lugging an engine. I won't address the name calling.

I'd like to see a well respected engine builder weigh in on this.

Which is it: not subjective, or the SAE cert is meaningless? Your argument is contradicting itself.

This is yet another example of not understanding the difference between engine load and vehicle acceleration. The engine load at WOT in 2nd is the same engine load as WOT in 6th. The rate in which the RPM's rise have no bearing on anything regarding what "lugging" is. I'm betting that last bit is a big sticking point for laymen.