[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by PolynesianPowerhouse

With the LGX having two hoses feeding off the intake tube... the larger single one and the smaller triple feed.

Have you all installed one on an lgx, and which area or side did you tap I?

Any pics or vids?

I also wonder if any oil analysis has been done to back up the claim that it gets fuel loaded. Plus, if you drive the car you'll change the oil way sooner than 10k. Hell, im at 4k and OLM is saying right at 35%.

Top tier is pretty much a marketing scam now.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

I also wonder if any oil analysis has been done to back up the claim that it gets fuel loaded. Plus, if you drive the car you'll change the oil way sooner than 10k. Hell, im at 4k and OLM is saying right at 35%.

Top tier is pretty much a marketing scam now.

I don't change my oil before 10k. I do an oil analysis every change. And on avg I span 12-15k, per change. Oversized filter, and non off the shelf stuff.

As far as an analysis for the catch can, I had one on my 2013, and it def helps especially after 100k worth of miles I did in 2 years. Had one on my charger and that was 244k miles worth of driving.

The byproduct stuff that condenses with condensation, especially in cooler days....you don't need a bag of hammers to nail the fact you wouldn't wanna reingest that to the engine. Def a worthwhile addition.

[Elite Engineering]

First, an oil analysis will show, but have an in-depth analysis...the Blackstone base analysis most use does not go deep enough to show all. Our main Engineer has been working with one of the largest most respected oil lubrication company's in the US working on just this issue. Think about all I explained on how and why fuel and particulate matter getting past the rings and entering the crankcase.


Now, the LGX GM made some changes to the PCV system to reduce the amount of oil entering the intake air charge, and it is a vert detrimental change for engine longevity. They deleted using the intake manifold for evacuation suction.


Instead of incorporating 2 evacuation suction sources like we have done for years to improve removal of these compounds from the crankcase before it can mix with the engine oil (please watch this video, while very generic, it is one of the only accurate training videos on how a PCV system works, and the functions it performs):







Here is a picture of the engine, and I'll go over each of the connections/hoses explaining it all:





So, if you look at the picture above you will see on the left side of the air box a small hard line goes from one of the air box "mufflers" and slits into 2 lines that connect to the front of each valve cover.


That is the clean, or "Fresh" side of the PCV system where MAF metered filtered fresh air enters to make up for and flush the dirty, or "foul" (GM uses the terms Fresh and Foul instead of Clean and Dirty) contaminate laden vapors from the crankcase.


The line from the drivers side of the air bridge runs to the rear of the engine where it connects to the valley cover under the intake manifold. This is the dirty, or "foul" side. But, as you can see, it does NOT connect to the intake manifold!! It only uses the suction present just upstream of the throttle body, and that suction is not nearly strong enough to properly evacuate the crankcase, so even more of these contaminates that enter as blow-by are being retained contaminating the engine oil. Now, underneath the intake air box is a large diameter hose that runs to a "sound symposer" (a speaker of sorts, non electrical) that transfers the sound of the intake suction to the firewall of the engine compartment (Ford does this with the Focus ST as other brands do as well in there "sports/performance models". I think it is dumb, but only IMHO). This hose has nothing to do with emissions or PCV.


Now, think about what this means to evacuate even LESS of the compounds that cause engine wear from the crankcase brings us backwards in engine technology decades. Elite in the E2 and E2-X systems utilizes both intake manifold vacuum for evacuation at idle, cruise, and deceleration evacuation, and the area in front of the TB for evacuation suction (only strong enough when accelerating or at WOT to properly evacuate) when IM vacuum drops to unusable levels when accelerating or at WOT. So, we connect to the tube running to the rear of the engine (the "Foul" side) and that runs to the center of our separator. This MUST have a 1/8" fixed orifice flow control restrictor in that line for proper CFM of flow. One outer fitting on the can with checkvalve flowing away will connect to a T you install into the brake booster vacuum line right at the barb it connects to (there is a one way vacuum checkvalve inside that line and at the booster stock). Then we connect the other outer fitting on the can w/checkvalve flowing away from the can to the barb on the drivers side of the air bridge at the barb on the one way valve located there. This now transfers the PCV system to always evacuate and remove these compounds as soon as they enter as blow-by and are still in suspension. Once these settle and mix with the engine oil, they are there to stay for the most part as the oil filter cannot trap particulate matter that small or remove the fuel and water present.


The Elite systems also retain emissions compliance and maintain a closed system.


Now, the way GM does this does reduce the amount of oil mist ingested, but in trade greatly increases the engines internal wear and shortens life (look at you warranty period on the engine, notice how they have dropped the mileage coverage?).


Now, as for the oil being ingested, how many have actually removed your intake manifold and look? I expect none. Your air intake bridge will only show oil at 2 locations now on the LGX, and that is inside the "muffler" on the passenger side where the fresh line connects (remove air bridge assy and turn up to drain out that fresh side barb to see) and also on the throttle body blade itself. Remove the TB and look inside the IM with a bright light and you will see oil on the floor of the IM.


Now, the post that "has not seen an effective catchcan", you are correct. 99% of all catchcans on the market, especially cheap Ebay cans to even the most recognized names only trap from 15% to 30% of the oil and other contaminates from the PCV vapors allowing most to still pass through and cause the issues your trying to prevent. The E2 and E2-X systems trap app. 95% plus of these, and there is no more effective can on the market. Want to see this personally? Take any other can that vendors promote, and install the E2-X or E2 can inline AFTER the can doing its best first in line and drive 1000-2000 miles (start with both cleaned of all oil) and the Elite will trap as much or more as the first can in line....and that is AFTER the first can did it's best. Now, to be fair and accurate, now clean both cans again of all residue and install the Elite E2 or E2-X can first in line, and the other can your testing last. The E2-X or E2 will allow almost none to pass into the second can as it is doing the job it is designed to. And this is ANY of the promoted brands. It is not fair to just name these and make claims as we are biased of course, but if you do this yourself and share you will see the same results we do in our testing (and this is the perfect way to see personally with no need to trust any brands claims, see for yourself). We already know the results as we have conducted these ourselves or would not make such a claim. No other catchcan manufacturer (most do NOT manufacture their offering but have the same can labeled with their brand that is branded with a dozen or more other brands) has put the R&D into what works and matching it to your specific application than Elite Engineering. And we make these claims with the actual results you can personally validate.


Keep the questions coming, and if we missed anyone's question in this post, ask more.


Do it once, do it right, Elite Engineering USA


Oh, and if we do not show your vehicle/engine on the website, just ask. You can also email our tech support staff directly at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com if you want a more personal dialog.

[cellsafemode]

So you're connecting both the PCV passenger side tube and the tube on the driver side to the can.

Have you had actual results with that setup? I assume the return tube from the can picks one of the connections back to the intake tube depending on which side of the car you plan on installing it on and closes the other off.

I haven't seen any "oil" from either tube on the intake, only dry carbon buildup on the throttle body and I assume in the valves. but I haven't removed the throttle body to take any pictures of the intake manifold. Intake tube is dry though and if oil vaporized or not was passing through it should have left something there but it's bone clean.

I currently only have the passenger side connected to my can. So far still nothing showing on the can's gauge tube. But i only have like 400 or so miles on it.

[MovieGuy]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

First, an oil analysis will show, but have an in-depth analysis...the Blackstone base analysis most use does not go deep enough to show all. Our main Engineer has been working with one of the largest most respected oil lubrication company's in the US working on just this issue. Think about all I explained on how and why fuel and particulate matter getting past the rings and entering the crankcase.


Now, the LGX GM made some changes to the PCV system to reduce the amount of oil entering the intake air charge, and it is a vert detrimental change for engine longevity. They deleted using the intake manifold for evacuation suction.


Instead of incorporating 2 evacuation suction sources like we have done for years to improve removal of these compounds from the crankcase before it can mix with the engine oil (please watch this video, while very generic, it is one of the only accurate training videos on how a PCV system works, and the functions it performs):







Here is a picture of the engine, and I'll go over each of the connections/hoses explaining it all:





So, if you look at the picture above you will see on the left side of the air box a small hard line goes from one of the air box "mufflers" and slits into 2 lines that connect to the front of each valve cover.


That is the clean, or "Fresh" side of the PCV system where MAF metered filtered fresh air enters to make up for and flush the dirty, or "foul" (GM uses the terms Fresh and Foul instead of Clean and Dirty) contaminate laden vapors from the crankcase.


The line from the drivers side of the air bridge runs to the rear of the engine where it connects to the valley cover under the intake manifold. This is the dirty, or "foul" side. But, as you can see, it does NOT connect to the intake manifold!! It only uses the suction present just upstream of the throttle body, and that suction is not nearly strong enough to properly evacuate the crankcase, so even more of these contaminates that enter as blow-by are being retained contaminating the engine oil. Now, underneath the intake air box is a large diameter hose that runs to a "sound symposer" (a speaker of sorts, non electrical) that transfers the sound of the intake suction to the firewall of the engine compartment (Ford does this with the Focus ST as other brands do as well in there "sports/performance models". I think it is dumb, but only IMHO). This hose has nothing to do with emissions or PCV.


Now, think about what this means to evacuate even LESS of the compounds that cause engine wear from the crankcase brings us backwards in engine technology decades. Elite in the E2 and E2-X systems utilizes both intake manifold vacuum for evacuation at idle, cruise, and deceleration evacuation, and the area in front of the TB for evacuation suction (only strong enough when accelerating or at WOT to properly evacuate) when IM vacuum drops to unusable levels when accelerating or at WOT. So, we connect to the tube running to the rear of the engine (the "Foul" side) and that runs to the center of our separator. This MUST have a 1/8" fixed orifice flow control restrictor in that line for proper CFM of flow. One outer fitting on the can with checkvalve flowing away will connect to a T you install into the brake booster vacuum line right at the barb it connects to (there is a one way vacuum checkvalve inside that line and at the booster stock). Then we connect the other outer fitting on the can w/checkvalve flowing away from the can to the barb on the drivers side of the air bridge at the barb on the one way valve located there. This now transfers the PCV system to always evacuate and remove these compounds as soon as they enter as blow-by and are still in suspension. Once these settle and mix with the engine oil, they are there to stay for the most part as the oil filter cannot trap particulate matter that small or remove the fuel and water present.


The Elite systems also retain emissions compliance and maintain a closed system.


Now, the way GM does this does reduce the amount of oil mist ingested, but in trade greatly increases the engines internal wear and shortens life (look at you warranty period on the engine, notice how they have dropped the mileage coverage?).


Now, as for the oil being ingested, how many have actually removed your intake manifold and look? I expect none. Your air intake bridge will only show oil at 2 locations now on the LGX, and that is inside the "muffler" on the passenger side where the fresh line connects (remove air bridge assy and turn up to drain out that fresh side barb to see) and also on the throttle body blade itself. Remove the TB and look inside the IM with a bright light and you will see oil on the floor of the IM.


Now, the post that "has not seen an effective catchcan", you are correct. 99% of all catchcans on the market, especially cheap Ebay cans to even the most recognized names only trap from 15% to 30% of the oil and other contaminates from the PCV vapors allowing most to still pass through and cause the issues your trying to prevent. The E2 and E2-X systems trap app. 95% plus of these, and there is no more effective can on the market. Want to see this personally? Take any other can that vendors promote, and install the E2-X or E2 can inline AFTER the can doing its best first in line and drive 1000-2000 miles (start with both cleaned of all oil) and the Elite will trap as much or more as the first can in line....and that is AFTER the first can did it's best. Now, to be fair and accurate, now clean both cans again of all residue and install the Elite E2 or E2-X can first in line, and the other can your testing last. The E2-X or E2 will allow almost none to pass into the second can as it is doing the job it is designed to. And this is ANY of the promoted brands. It is not fair to just name these and make claims as we are biased of course, but if you do this yourself and share you will see the same results we do in our testing (and this is the perfect way to see personally with no need to trust any brands claims, see for yourself). We already know the results as we have conducted these ourselves or would not make such a claim. No other catchcan manufacturer (most do NOT manufacture their offering but have the same can labeled with their brand that is branded with a dozen or more other brands) has put the R&D into what works and matching it to your specific application than Elite Engineering. And we make these claims with the actual results you can personally validate.


Keep the questions coming, and if we missed anyone's question in this post, ask more.


Do it once, do it right, Elite Engineering USA


Oh, and if we do not show your vehicle/engine on the website, just ask. You can also email our tech support staff directly at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com if you want a more personal dialog.

You say the life of our engines has been greatly reduced. Are we driving less than 100 thousand mile cars now? Is it back to the 60s when an overhaul was necessary if your engine hit 100 thousand miles? Are we going to need valve jobs at 60 thousand miles now like we did back then?

[Lord Dirt]

I hit 2300 miles

[bballr4567]

I want to see an oil report from a LT1 or LGX that shows fuel loaded oil especially guys using fully synthetic oils.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

First, an oil analysis will show, but have an in-depth analysis...the Blackstone base analysis most use does not go deep enough to show all. Our main Engineer has been working with one of the largest most respected oil lubrication company's in the US working on just this issue. Think about all I explained on how and why fuel and particulate matter getting past the rings and entering the crankcase.


Now, the LGX GM made some changes to the PCV system to reduce the amount of oil entering the intake air charge, and it is a vert detrimental change for engine longevity. They deleted using the intake manifold for evacuation suction.


Instead of incorporating 2 evacuation suction sources like we have done for years to improve removal of these compounds from the crankcase before it can mix with the engine oil (please watch this video, while very generic, it is one of the only accurate training videos on how a PCV system works, and the functions it performs):

So, if you look at the picture above you will see on the left side of the air box a small hard line goes from one of the air box "mufflers" and slits into 2 lines that connect to the front of each valve cover.


That is the clean, or "Fresh" side of the PCV system where MAF metered filtered fresh air enters to make up for and flush the dirty, or "foul" (GM uses the terms Fresh and Foul instead of Clean and Dirty) contaminate laden vapors from the crankcase.


The line from the drivers side of the air bridge runs to the rear of the engine where it connects to the valley cover under the intake manifold. This is the dirty, or "foul" side. But, as you can see, it does NOT connect to the intake manifold!! It only uses the suction present just upstream of the throttle body, and that suction is not nearly strong enough to properly evacuate the crankcase, so even more of these contaminates that enter as blow-by are being retained contaminating the engine oil. Now, underneath the intake air box is a large diameter hose that runs to a "sound symposer" (a speaker of sorts, non electrical) that transfers the sound of the intake suction to the firewall of the engine compartment (Ford does this with the Focus ST as other brands do as well in there "sports/performance models". I think it is dumb, but only IMHO). This hose has nothing to do with emissions or PCV.


Now, think about what this means to evacuate even LESS of the compounds that cause engine wear from the crankcase brings us backwards in engine technology decades. Elite in the E2 and E2-X systems utilizes both intake manifold vacuum for evacuation at idle, cruise, and deceleration evacuation, and the area in front of the TB for evacuation suction (only strong enough when accelerating or at WOT to properly evacuate) when IM vacuum drops to unusable levels when accelerating or at WOT. So, we connect to the tube running to the rear of the engine (the "Foul" side) and that runs to the center of our separator. This MUST have a 1/8" fixed orifice flow control restrictor in that line for proper CFM of flow. One outer fitting on the can with checkvalve flowing away will connect to a T you install into the brake booster vacuum line right at the barb it connects to (there is a one way vacuum checkvalve inside that line and at the booster stock). Then we connect the other outer fitting on the can w/checkvalve flowing away from the can to the barb on the drivers side of the air bridge at the barb on the one way valve located there. This now transfers the PCV system to always evacuate and remove these compounds as soon as they enter as blow-by and are still in suspension. Once these settle and mix with the engine oil, they are there to stay for the most part as the oil filter cannot trap particulate matter that small or remove the fuel and water present.


The Elite systems also retain emissions compliance and maintain a closed system.


Now, the way GM does this does reduce the amount of oil mist ingested, but in trade greatly increases the engines internal wear and shortens life (look at you warranty period on the engine, notice how they have dropped the mileage coverage?).


Now, as for the oil being ingested, how many have actually removed your intake manifold and look? I expect none. Your air intake bridge will only show oil at 2 locations now on the LGX, and that is inside the "muffler" on the passenger side where the fresh line connects (remove air bridge assy and turn up to drain out that fresh side barb to see) and also on the throttle body blade itself. Remove the TB and look inside the IM with a bright light and you will see oil on the floor of the IM.


Now, the post that "has not seen an effective catchcan", you are correct. 99% of all catchcans on the market, especially cheap Ebay cans to even the most recognized names only trap from 15% to 30% of the oil and other contaminates from the PCV vapors allowing most to still pass through and cause the issues your trying to prevent. The E2 and E2-X systems trap app. 95% plus of these, and there is no more effective can on the market. Want to see this personally? Take any other can that vendors promote, and install the E2-X or E2 can inline AFTER the can doing its best first in line and drive 1000-2000 miles (start with both cleaned of all oil) and the Elite will trap as much or more as the first can in line....and that is AFTER the first can did it's best. Now, to be fair and accurate, now clean both cans again of all residue and install the Elite E2 or E2-X can first in line, and the other can your testing last. The E2-X or E2 will allow almost none to pass into the second can as it is doing the job it is designed to. And this is ANY of the promoted brands. It is not fair to just name these and make claims as we are biased of course, but if you do this yourself and share you will see the same results we do in our testing (and this is the perfect way to see personally with no need to trust any brands claims, see for yourself). We already know the results as we have conducted these ourselves or would not make such a claim. No other catchcan manufacturer (most do NOT manufacture their offering but have the same can labeled with their brand that is branded with a dozen or more other brands) has put the R&D into what works and matching it to your specific application than Elite Engineering. And we make these claims with the actual results you can personally validate.


Keep the questions coming, and if we missed anyone's question in this post, ask more.


Do it once, do it right, Elite Engineering USA


Oh, and if we do not show your vehicle/engine on the website, just ask. You can also email our tech support staff directly at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com if you want a more personal dialog.

I 100% get it. I've never doubted catch cans, since I running one in 2007 on my dodge charger, then on then LFX and now LGX.

I drive my car a sh*t-ton... prob far more than many on here. I haven't hit 3 months yet, and from a car with 40 miles, this weekends AutoX will be 3 months on the 23rd. today I'm at 9600+ miles. will prob touch 10,000 before or by the weekend no doubt.

with that being said, the tube that come from back of the engine, and into the intake tract. I DO have oil residue from that area. yes I drive hard, many times, winding a gear out fully before a shift.


Thing is, I know, carbon build up on the valves, can eventually cause the need for a valve cleaning, and decreased performance. in time, everyone will be different. however, unless one has lived under a rock for the past half a decade, all DIRECT INJECTION engines, this is a con to the increased efficiency (fuel mileage and power) that we gain.


with that being said, most of us here, who don't have to question a catch can, simply need A SOLUTION. most of us here, aren't gonna be too keen on fitting parts for an older gen, to a newer car. mounting is another issue unless you have a mount designed for our cars already in a location for the v6.

Originally Posted by bballr4567

I want to see an oil report from a LT1 or LGX that shows fuel loaded oil especially guys using fully synthetic oils.

I don't think theres a significant amount of fuel in any oil samples... however there always will be SOME blowby to the crank case.

there are always acceptable levels however. if you go past those levels, then that will lower the flashpoint of the oil as well as dilute the viscosity....hence in other words, you have a major issue, tuning or otherwise that needs to be corrected.

so i'm willing to guess that's why no one is posting anything with lets say 2% of fuel in oil. That would be the first signal that too much fuel is getting past the rings, which would be washing down the cylinder walls and that would and could cause accelerated upper cylinder wear. most NORMAL analysis will show less than 0.5% if not lower.

[bballr4567]

Exactly Powerhouse on the fuel bit. Some powerful claims being thrown around in the first post by Elite that just didn't make sense.

[cellsafemode]

Well, a solution is going to require either a significant amount of replacement parts or some not so pretty tube attachments - maybe this is what is holding up solutions?

The hard line tubes can't be removed from their connectors. So that means cutting them in the middle and squeezing some flexible hose over the hard tube and clamping or cutting the hose at the fitting and leaving what remains of the hose on the fitting and putting your hose attachment over that and clamping (this is what i did).

If I need to add a 3rd hose tap from the driver side intake tube supposedly going to the "dirty" side of the pcv system then that's gonna be a fun looking connection.


the tapping of vacuum hoses and adding one way check valves etc sounds unnecessarily complicated. It may be an improvement, may not...but none of that should be necessary to eliminate what is already making it's way into the intake.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Well, a solution is going to require either a significant amount of replacement parts or some not so pretty tube attachments - maybe this is what is holding up solutions?

I agree.. it's like mishimoto also said, they've done stuff for the ss and the turbo4, but they haven't gotten their hands on a bone stock car. Mines not exactly bone stock anymore currently, but I'm just 45 min away. Not sure if any rentals are out either...

The hard line tubes can't be removed from their connectors. So that means cutting them in the middle and squeezing some flexible hose over the hard tube and clamping or cutting the hose at the fitting and leaving what remains of the hose on the fitting and putting your hose attachment over that and clamping (this is what i did).

That shouldn't be an issue. That's what I did on my 5th gen with the apex catch can and also on the charger with the billet technology setup. It's always gonna be a cut and splice somewhere. Usually the mounting is the challenge depending on the room and adapter you use.

If I need to add a 3rd hose tap from the driver side intake tube supposedly going to the "dirty" side of the pcv system then that's gonna be a fun looking connection.

Kinda like a life support frankencan?

the tapping of vacuum hoses and adding one way check valves etc sounds unnecessarily complicated. It may be an improvement, may not...but none of that should be necessary to eliminate what is already making it's way into the intake.

I think that's only if you do the equivalent of a clean side separator. That's what I got from that section. The dirty side will still produce the most accumulate I'm guessing.


There's a market for a kit. Just up to someone to produce. There's a few parts I wish I never had to sell on my last car...hindsight is 20/20

Bballer, it might have been stressed a bit awry. But I remember inside the catch can, especially during the winter when it frothy and condensates....sometimes you can smeet the fuel in the catch or caught residuals in the can. The condensation just makes it look awful as well...

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Which catch can do you have installed? eBay special like mine or something else?

I did the Mishimoto. I am liking the idea that it looks factory installed. Car shows allow you to make up to 3 mods to the car and after that you are classed along with other "modified" cars. So, if it looks stock, I can compete well.

I have used catch cans on most of my recent cars, but I have to say the Mishimoto seemed to be the best engineered of the bunch and it looks like it.

[MovieGuy]

If catch cans are so effective at increasing the life expectancy of the engine why were they not incorporated into the engine's design?

[KirkH]

Probably because the catch cans have to be drained and the manufacturer doesn't want the consumer to have to do it.