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Old 04-17-2021, 12:16 AM   #15
Camaro1973

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vileintent View Post
I'm not sure about doing a cam. I know it's probably the easiest way to get fuel to break past 700WHP but I'm not yet ready to open the engine internals and I'm not a fan of the motor boat sound that comes with it. Cool for some, not entirely my thing. That said, I will likely convince myself once I get used to the 670-700 power range. Never say never goes the saying right : )

You can get a very mild cam and a 32% fuel lobe though if you want it to idle like stock
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Old 04-17-2021, 01:56 PM   #16
Markoz28

 
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I’m sure you can get 680-690 with just headers, high cats (or better yet, no cats), 103TB. I would still get the Big Gulp. It doesn’t hurt and will be a benefit in the future if you go cam. I’m guessing you need a better tune. I would go with Jannetty for sure.
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Old 04-17-2021, 05:29 PM   #17
Flexhorn
 
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I did 103 TB and got 150HP out of my 2650
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Old 04-17-2021, 09:53 PM   #18
Evansa22

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro1973 View Post
It will drop slightly. But no cam or headwork with that 90m pulley, hes looking at an easy 15-16psi. I was hitting 16 on pretty much same setup but with headers. Temp/Elevation does matter too.


Any cam or other work in the future planned? That's when shell really open up. I dropped about 3lbs boost after cam/heads then added a 10% lower and i'm in the 14-15 range now.
I stand corrected, you have a nice setup and those numbers look great.

I wonder if an ethanol blend would be beneficial for you op? If that's even an option with station availability near you, and how much room you have left in the fuel system
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Old 04-18-2021, 09:32 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Flexhorn View Post
I did 103 TB and got 150HP out of my 2650
That's good to hear, pretty easy swap so will be first on the list.
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Old 04-18-2021, 09:41 AM   #20
Vileintent
 
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Originally Posted by Evansa22 View Post
I wonder if an ethanol blend would be beneficial for you op? If that's even an option with station availability near you, and how much room you have left in the fuel system
No E85 options in my neck of the woods unfortunately. I'm pretty much restricted to pump gas around here (Seattle).
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Old 04-18-2021, 10:17 AM   #21
13screw
 
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I didnt see anyone mention a alky meth kit. You can easily make over 700 with a stock or ported tb. I'd save the money on the 103 tb, get a meth kit so your timing can be increased safely along with headers or test pipes from new era performance. I was hesitant on the meth kit until I saw how clean the trunk install is and how little it uses being maf based.
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Old 04-18-2021, 10:32 AM   #22
d15b7
 
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the one thing that has always concerned me with meth injection as a method for greatly increasing performance has been the 'what if it fails for any reason' conundrum. I'm not familiar with the newer kits, but back in the day I had a Mitsubishi EVO VIII which was lightly tuned up (downpipe, HKS 264 cams, cat delete, muffler delete straight pipe and a custom ecu flash) and it ran awesome. some people were starting to use meth injection to really turn up the boost and timing while still running 93 octane and getting great results. the big issue became engine failures due to primarily: running low or out of meth and not noticing the red LED alert light (they usually put it down in the center console and I always thought that was a bad place for it), or sometimes the injector would get a bit of trash or dirt in it and clog up with the same result (melted pistons and a detonated engine). the guys it happened to said it happened fast, and that always scared me off of really considering the meth kits.

I'm curious if the new generation meth kits (that one in the picture looks really nicely engineered BTW) have any built in failsafes in the case of pump failure or injector clogging or simply running out of meth (or it sloshing from side to side when it gets low like on a track)? do the new generation kits cut the timing way back or cut boost (I can't see how they'd do that since it's a supercharger instead of turbo) if they sense an issue (or try to enrich the main fueling too perhaps)? that way the engine would be protected from catastrophic damage especially if the driver didn't notice that he was having a meth injection system failure.

In the end, with the EVO, I ended up installing my own custom water injection system (no fuel no meth just water) and had it set for 12 psi with an arming switch for use when I was doing track days. I didn't up the boost or advance the timing past what the custom flash was already set for without the water injection. the water was just to help give an extra cushion of detonation resistance and it also helped on very hot days with the engine pulling timing during a long track session. (basically it kept the power level nice and stable and steady throughout an entire session). it worked very well and I was really happy with it, and I felt comfortable in that if it did fail while on track, it wouldn't result in a blown up engine; the worst that would happen would be that it would be like running without the water injection anyway. a side benefit of the water injection was it kept the combustion chambers super clean and the plugs immaculate. I'd typically use between 3 and 4 qts of water in a 20 min session (since I wasn't injecting meth as a fuel through it, I didn't need anywhere near as big an injector)
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Old 04-18-2021, 10:45 AM   #23
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The problem with meth is that its requires recommended annual maintenance and its prone to leaks. Most people who use meth end up ditching it later.
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Old 04-18-2021, 11:38 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z OH 6 View Post
The problem with meth is that its requires recommended annual maintenance and its prone to leaks. Most people who use meth end up ditching it later.
100% correct, you tend to add more parts you need to watch out for regularly..

I wouldn't do it again.. Last meth experience was a really bad one for me
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Old 04-18-2021, 11:51 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z OH 6 View Post
The problem with meth is that its requires recommended annual maintenance and its prone to leaks. Most people who use meth end up ditching it later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickspeedkuwait View Post
100% correct, you tend to add more parts you need to watch out for regularly..

I wouldn't do it again.. Last meth experience was a really bad one for me


Relying on meth is a gamble at best IMO.
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Old 04-18-2021, 04:04 PM   #26
13screw
 
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Just wondering who has had a meth kit fail on a zl1 causing engine damage? 🤔 The negitive comments against them I'd hope come from real world experiences and not hearsay. these cars layover really hard and timing is cut if the fuel source is not keeping up. There's a reason most major shops use them. This would be my 4th kit on 4 different cars and never had an issue. I get it if the owner of this post is against meth but let's not say it's a basically a time bomb if meth is installed. It was just a suggestion from my previous experiences. What's worse, Pushing pump gas to the limit and risking kr, or adding meth to increase timing safely and making more power. Each to their own I suppose.
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Old 04-18-2021, 05:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by 13screw View Post
Just wondering who has had a meth kit fail on a zl1 causing engine damage? �� The negitive comments against them I'd hope come from real world experiences and not hearsay. these cars layover really hard and timing is cut if the fuel source is not keeping up. There's a reason most major shops use them. This would be my 4th kit on 4 different cars and never had an issue. I get it if the owner of this post is against meth but let's not say it's a basically a time bomb if meth is installed. It was just a suggestion from my previous experiences. What's worse, Pushing pump gas to the limit and risking kr, or adding meth to increase timing safely and making more power. Each to their own I suppose.
Vengeance Racing told me they would install meth if I insisted but told me they don't recommend it for the reasons I stated above. They said they've seen too many fail and they try to steer customers away from it when it possible. Since they're one of the top shops in the US, I trust their real world experience. Meth is a band-aid waiting to be ripped off, there are far safer ways to add fuel and most top shops will recommend going that route.
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Old 04-19-2021, 07:57 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vileintent View Post
My son and I upgraded our 2017 A10 ZL1 with a Magnusson 2650R as our covid father son project. We took it to the dyno to see what it's at for power and the numbers came back a lot lower than I was expecting, pretty bummed about it actually.

Mods on the car:
  • Standard Rotofab (not big gulp)
  • AWE Touring cat back exhaust
  • Soler performance ported throttle body (stock size)

Other details:
  • Mileage: 22,000
  • 92 pump gas
  • Stock lower pulley, upper 90mm, throttle body 90mm
  • Runs were done in 6th gear
  • I don't have a baseline unfortunately, the shop pulled up a baseline for another customer (same car) and it was 547WHP SAE (about what I'd expect for stock)
  • Dynojet AWD using SAE, smoothing factor 5

Results
  • First run (#004) was using the Magnuson canned tune, other run is after a custom tune. I was hoping for 650-670 but came out at 622. A 75HP increase.
  • Interesting the curve flattens at 6K RPM, perhaps that's normal?
  • The boost appeared to hit 15psi, much higher than I expected?? Going in I was thinking of ways to get to 11-13psi, potentially going to an 85mm upper pulley but with the boost showing 15 it doesn't seem like I should touch it.
  • The custom tune definitely added more under the curve for torque in the lower end which I can definitely feel.

Plans from here:

I think I need to open things up to get more airflow so :
  • Open up the snout, go to 103mm throttle body
  • Consider headers and high flow cats

Goal: 680-700 WHP on 92 pump gas (for now)

.
Pretty sure your making about what it should with no other mods and yes you should have ordered the 103 snout and NW TB. If you still have the stock lower that 85 should have put you about 12-13. Do you know what the KPI was on that and how they figured the boost level? I know your disappointed but now sky is the limit of your wallet for power.
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