[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The ZL1 sounds good stock, but not very close to my GT w/ the Borla catback. That thing purrrrs. That said, to me the ZL1 definitely has a pretty awesome and angry roar to it under load. I've also yet to take it past 4k rpms, so I'm sure the party is barely getting started considering there's 2,500 rpm left to go!

The Mustang GT is fast but I don't think it's fair to compare it to a ZL1 unless it's supercharged or it's cammed and has a tune and bolt ons.

[Realist]

Congrats and nice write up. It’s official, you are no longer the red headed step child of the group.

[Staves]

I didn’t think my ‘19 GT even compared to my SS. Comparing it to a ZL1??
Different leagues. Why keep a GT around when you have a ZL1?

[gtfoxy]

Greatly appreciate your insight. Having had the GT a while you are in a very good position to rationally compare it to a short term ownership of the ZL1.

I’d like to opine on a few points if you’d allow me:

Feel: I will say, though, even after owning an SS when I first got behind the wheel of my Z it felt “different & unique”. While I looked around the driver’s compartment & everything was familiar, it just felt differently to what I was used to. Now I get in it & it’s like I’m home. The way the SS felt. I suspect that is how you will come to feel in about 6 months as well.

Exhaust: I also had an S-Type on my SS. It sounded awesome compared to the factory non-NPP. I do enjoy the factory NPP of the ZL1, but I am considering an S-Type for it as well.

Ergonomics: I had a few mustang rentals & have spent the last 20+yrs (had several Fox bodies) in both GM & Ford interiors. I came accustomed to both layouts. For some things the Fords made more sense, others GM. The infotainment system is, IMO, much more attractive in the Camaro vs the Mustang. It doesn’t have the cheesy surround & access buttons. The vent layout & controls are much more intuitive also.

Looks: When the GT350 first came out I loved the looks & was tempted to buy one. The price tag, however, seemed a tad steep for what it was. The rear end is very attractive, the front was an excellent nod to the original platform, yet familiarly modern. At that time the 5gen was also a favorite of mine but there were certain details I didn’t care for. Of the two the Mustang won in this department at that time.

When they introduced the 6gen it was really no contest. They fixed some of the things I didn’t care for on the 5gen while Ford didn’t really do much until the GT500. While a mixed opinion among 6gen owners, the redesign of the rear end from ‘19+ was a main reason I went to a 19 vs an 18. I love the afterburner tail lights. The individuation & contours add a depth & variety I truly enjoy looking at, even compared to the GT500.

Comparative models: Comparing performance of a GT vs. ZL1 is, indeed, not an apples to apples comparison. That is GT500 territory. Before I bought my Z I strongly considered a 500, like I searched for weeks looking for one that would compare price wise to options. Unfortunately the price tag for the added HP just didn’t pan out. These two are so close on relative performance the bottom line becomes bang-for-the-buck.

Engine: This is such an apples to oranges comparison it’s really hard to do. One is a short deck DOHC while the other is a tall deck OHV. One a natural torque monster, the other a high winding virtuoso. Not that a factory 6,500RPM OHV V8 is anything to sneeze at, the DOHC in the Ford is truly a unique musical symphony that any real car enthusiast should relish. The brute tone of the GM 6.2, IMO, eclipses that higher winding tone with a guttural rhapsody that is a true evolution of American V8 tradition.

It’s a well known fact GM did more with less in terms of the blower on these cars. Add a 2650 or a Whipple to these cars & it becomes a totally different ball game, which is more in-line with what dodge & Ford did. While the 1.7 offers excellent low & midrange punch, it falls off on the top end as it’s at the max for efficiency as-delivered.

Chassis: I think you already have an appreciation of what the Alpha platform brings to the table in terms of chassis stiffness & handling. It is truly a confidence inspiring masterpiece that, until you own one, can not truly be appreciated. It’s really that good.

Hope you don’t mind my TLDR rambling.

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

The Mustang GT is fast but I don't think it's fair to compare it to a ZL1 unless it's supercharged or it's cammed and has a tune and bolt ons.

A GT500 is the appropriate comparison, to a ZLE that is, no doubt.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

The Mustang GT is fast but I don't think it's fair to compare it to a ZL1 unless it's supercharged or it's cammed and has a tune and bolt ons.

Agree - it's just what I have on hand in my garage so I figured I'd share the impressions/differences. Although, I will add that a supercharged GT is only comparable to a ZL1 in a straight line. The ZL1 will dust it in everything else.

Originally Posted by Realist

Congrats and nice write up. It’s official, you are no longer the red headed step child of the group.

Ha, thanks!

Originally Posted by Staves

I didn’t think my ‘19 GT even compared to my SS. Comparing it to a ZL1??
Different leagues. Why keep a GT around when you have a ZL1?

I'm selling the GT - listed it yesterday - my drive solidified it as it's an inferior performance car.

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

Greatly appreciate your insight. Having had the GT a while you are in a very good position to rationally compare it to a short term ownership of the ZL1.

I’d like to opine on a few points if you’d allow me:

Feel: I will say, though, even after owning an SS when I first got behind the wheel of my Z it felt “different & unique”. While I looked around the driver’s compartment & everything was familiar, it just felt differently to what I was used to. Now I get in it & it’s like I’m home. The way the SS felt. I suspect that is how you will come to feel in about 6 months as well.

Exhaust: I also had an S-Type on my SS. It sounded awesome compared to the factory non-NPP. I do enjoy the factory NPP of the ZL1, but I am considering an S-Type for it as well.

Ergonomics: I had a few mustang rentals & have spent the last 20+yrs (had several Fox bodies) in both GM & Ford interiors. I came accustomed to both layouts. For some things the Fords made more sense, others GM. The infotainment system is, IMO, much more attractive in the Camaro vs the Mustang. It doesn’t have the cheesy surround & access buttons. The vent layout & controls are much more intuitive also.

Looks: When the GT350 first came out I loved the looks & was tempted to buy one. The price tag, however, seemed a tad steep for what it was. The rear end is very attractive, the front was an excellent nod to the original platform, yet familiarly modern. At that time the 5gen was also a favorite of mine but there were certain details I didn’t care for. Of the two the Mustang won in this department at that time.

When they introduced the 6gen it was really no contest. They fixed some of the things I didn’t care for on the 5gen while Ford didn’t really do much until the GT500. While a mixed opinion among 6gen owners, the redesign of the rear end from ‘19+ was a main reason I went to a 19 vs an 18. I love the afterburner tail lights. The individuation & contours add a depth & variety I truly enjoy looking at, even compared to the GT500.

Comparative models: Comparing performance of a GT vs. ZL1 is, indeed, not an apples to apples comparison. That is GT500 territory. Before I bought my Z I strongly considered a 500, like I searched for weeks looking for one that would compare price wise to options. Unfortunately the price tag for the added HP just didn’t pan out. These two are so close on relative performance the bottom line becomes bang-for-the-buck.

Engine: This is such an apples to oranges comparison it’s really hard to do. One is a short deck DOHC while the other is a tall deck OHV. One a natural torque monster, the other a high winding virtuoso. Not that a factory 6,500RPM OHV V8 is anything to sneeze at, the DOHC in the Ford is truly a unique musical symphony that any real car enthusiast should relish. The brute tone of the GM 6.2, IMO, eclipses that higher winding tone with a guttural rhapsody that is a true evolution of American V8 tradition.

It’s a well known fact GM did more with less in terms of the blower on these cars. Add a 2650 or a Whipple to these cars & it becomes a totally different ball game, which is more in-line with what dodge & Ford did. While the 1.7 offers excellent low & midrange punch, it falls off on the top end as it’s at the max for efficiency as-delivered.

Chassis: I think you already have an appreciation of what the Alpha platform brings to the table in terms of chassis stiffness & handling. It is truly a confidence inspiring masterpiece that, until you own one, can not truly be appreciated. It’s really that good.

Hope you don’t mind my TLDR rambling.


A GT500 is the appropriate comparison, to a ZLE that is, no doubt.

Good points and fully agree the GT is not a direct competitor to the ZL1 - not even close. The small blower LT4 makes a lot of power and torque, so it's good enough for me. And I will miss the high revving Gen 3 Coyote, but the LT4 is altogether better being so much more powerful, that I don't think I'll end up missing it that much in the grand scheme of things.

Also - I agree about the 19+ rear end being an improvement on the 16-18 rear end - I really dig the dimension the updated design added to the rear end as well.

As far as true competition, I think a ZL1 and base GT500 are a fair comparison, and ZLE vs. GT500 CFTP. And possibly GT350 vs ZL1, except for the power difference.

I completely agree on price and value of ZL1 vs GT500. Case in point: I paid several thousand under msrp for my ZL1 (dealer discount + $2k in GM incentives). A base GT500 + tech. package (to compare better to a ZL1's options) is $78k (with stripes, because if I was buying a GT500, I would get one with racing stripes!), if you can find one at msrp. Assuming a $5-6k ADM, that GT500 would be approaching $20k more than I paid for my ZL1. Sure, it's quicker in a straight line since it has a lot more horsepower, but the ZL1 is no slouch, and seems to hook up a little better at low speeds since it has better weight distribution. The ZL1 is also ~250 lbs lighter than a base GT500 (3,925 lbs vs 4,171 lbs per C&D), so that helps make up for some of the power deficit (at least at speeds below 100 mph before wind resistance becomes the dominant resistance). I'm sure the GT500 is great, but considering the price, ADM, and the fact that my Ford dealer wasn't allowing test drives, they missed out on that sale to me.

Going with the ZL1 was a no brainer as I'd be hard pressed to pay nearly $20k more for a car that, while I'm sure is great, I couldn't test drive, and therefore, couldn't justify the extra cost. I would like to drive one, to really have a fair comparison to my ZL1.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

There's a number of things I'll miss about the Mustang, but the ZL1 more than makes up it! I'll have to get used to switching on my brights and manually turning on my windshield wipers again...

That's a selling feature for me, lol! I loathe auto highbeams and wipers, they never function properly.

[shaffe]

Congrats on the new ride Idaho, car looks killer. That color is amazing.

Everyones getting new rides I don't know how much longer I can wait lol

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

That's a selling feature for me, lol! I loathe auto highbeams and wipers, they never function properly.

Ha, believe it or not, the auto high beams, adaptive cruise, and auto wipers worked perfectly in the Mustang. The ZL1 doesn't have any of those features, but that's fine.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ha, believe it or not, the auto high beams, adaptive cruise, and auto wipers worked perfectly in the Mustang. The ZL1 doesn't have any of those features, but that's fine.

Been through about 5-6 brands of Germans and some domestics with auto high beams and wipers - they all sucked for my preferences.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Getting window tint and full front XPEL PPF (full front+full hood+full fenders+mirrors) tomorrow (EDIT: Monday - there was a schedule mix-up - what a waste of time), plus the space between the back of the door and in front of the rear tires (the lower half). Will probably also add PPF to the lower half of the car behind the rear tires (up to the bumper body seam/line), and the rocker panels. I looked at the underside of the rockers and after 130 miles (no freeway miles), they are already pocked marked all over - while the top half are fine. I know that's their job (to block rocks from hitting the side of the car that the front tires fling), but since they are shiny black I'd like to protect them. Anyone else had PPF done on the top and bottoms of the rocker panels?

[BlaqWhole]

A FBO 18+ GT on E85 and with reduced weight will beat a ZL1 from 40-90 MPH tho.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Dear Lord please forgive me for what I'm about to say...

The ZL1 at it's best does not sound anywhere near as good as the S550 GT.

Dear lord please forgive me for what I'm about to say....

I 100% agree with you, the DOHC Coyote and especially the flat plane GT350 just make the most glorious sounds

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Also - I agree about the 19+ rear end being an improvement on the 16-18 rear end - I really dig the dimension the updated design added to the rear end as well.

As far as true competition, I think a ZL1 and base GT500 are a fair comparison, and ZLE vs. GT500 CFTP. And possibly GT350 vs ZL1, except for the power difference.

I completely agree on price and value of ZL1 vs GT500. Case in point: I paid several thousand under msrp for my ZL1 (dealer discount + $2k in GM incentives). A base GT500 + tech. package (to compare better to a ZL1's options) is $78k (with stripes, because if I was buying a GT500, I would get one with racing stripes!), if you can find one at msrp. Assuming a $5-6k ADM, that GT500 would be approaching $20k more than I paid for my ZL1. Sure, it's quicker in a straight line since it has a lot more horsepower, but the ZL1 is no slouch, and seems to hook up a little better at low speeds since it has better weight distribution. The ZL1 is also ~250 lbs lighter than a base GT500 (3,925 lbs vs 4,171 lbs per C&D), so that helps make up for some of the power deficit (at least at speeds below 100 mph before wind resistance becomes the dominant resistance). I'm sure the GT500 is great, but considering the price, ADM, and the fact that my Ford dealer wasn't allowing test drives, they missed out on that sale to me.

Going with the ZL1 was a no brainer as I'd be hard pressed to pay nearly $20k more for a car that, while I'm sure is great, I couldn't test drive, and therefore, couldn't justify the extra cost. I would like to drive one, to really have a fair comparison to my ZL1.

Congrats on the ZL1 Idaho and your comparisons are all pretty spot on, especially the price vs. a GT500.

The only thing that bothers me with the 19+ tail lights is that you have to remove the bumper to remove the tail lights. Seriously why do auto manufacturers do shit like that? (Ex. to replace a headlight bulb please remove the entire inner fender )

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

A FBO 18+ GT on E85 and with reduced weight will beat a ZL1 from 40-90 MPH tho.

Who are you and what have you done with Mr. Whole?

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Congrats on the new ride Idaho, car looks killer. That color is amazing.

Everyones getting new rides I don't know how much longer I can wait lol

2018 Mazda6, Shaffe?!? Don't wait much longer! Just kidding! I've got a 2011 Mazda6 commuter car. Mine is a 6m, 4-banger and it's actually pretty entertaining to drive. You do need to add a gen6 to the fleet though!

[NW-99SS]

I don't know if there is a domestic engine that can touch the Voodoo in terms of sound, and certainly nothing with factory exhaust.

Quietly hands in Camaro/Corvette fanboy card...